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	<title>Comments on: Australia&#8217;s US insurance policy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/</link>
	<description>Australian Libertarian Society Blog</description>
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		<title>By: terje (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7865</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[terje (say tay-a)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 05:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks. 8-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: nicholas gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicholas gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Just this once, Terje, you can have the last word for guiding me to such an interesting entry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just this once, Terje, you can have the last word for guiding me to such an interesting entry.</p>
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		<title>By: terje (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7861</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[terje (say tay-a)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I saw a claim that Martin bought his gun/guns in a pub, i.e. nonlegally.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wikipedia as usual has a lot of details:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_Massacre#Money_supply_and_weapon_build_up]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I saw a claim that Martin bought his gun/guns in a pub, i.e. nonlegally.</p></blockquote>
<p>Wikipedia as usual has a lot of details:-</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_Massacre#Money_supply_and_weapon_build_up" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_Massacre#Money_supply_and_weapon_build_up</a></p>
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		<title>By: nicholas gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicholas gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JIMUNRO, regarding Port Arthur and Martin Bryant- I saw a claim that Martin bought his gun/guns in a pub, i.e. nonlegally. I haven&#039;t been able to prove the case, so does anyone else know where we can go for the facts on this matter? Re, the Virginia Tech massacre- A Samizdata.net site claims that this is a school that outlawed guns from its&#039; grounds! So this is not typical of America. Whilst America won&#039;t give up its&#039; weapons, I wonder how soon we hear cries for more restrictions here?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JIMUNRO, regarding Port Arthur and Martin Bryant- I saw a claim that Martin bought his gun/guns in a pub, i.e. nonlegally. I haven&#8217;t been able to prove the case, so does anyone else know where we can go for the facts on this matter? Re, the Virginia Tech massacre- A Samizdata.net site claims that this is a school that outlawed guns from its&#8217; grounds! So this is not typical of America. Whilst America won&#8217;t give up its&#8217; weapons, I wonder how soon we hear cries for more restrictions here?</p>
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		<title>By: Jimunro</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7789</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimunro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually I entirely agree with you.

I can’t remember a government ever handing back &quot;temporary&quot; powers, and they will indeed use any excuse, not only wars to increase those powers, and yes they employ specialists in sounding reasonable. 

For example Port Arthur was used as excuse to implement harsh gun control, when the reality was that if even one or two of the people there that day were carrying an evil concealed firearm, that dumb bastard would have been blown away rather quickly, probably not before doing damage, but you can’t have it all. If the possibility of an armed citizen had existed, it may not have happened at all. 

But we wouldn’t want to be like America, would we?

The only protection against this, is to be incisive enough to see through those campaigns, articulate enough to argue effectively, loud enough to be heard, and thick skinned enough to cope with the vicious attacks this will bring down on your head.

Central power is, and always will be argued for, by governments. Your points are good. The fact is, and always will be, that the more complex society, or problems are, the less capable a central authority is to deal with the situation. 

I could not ever support conscription. In a free society, governments derive their rights from the consent of the governed. As such, no government can claim rights that the individual does not have, as, if the individual does not have a right, they can not hand that right on to another.

Conscription is the forcible detention of people, against their wills, and forcing to render service against their wills. No individual has the right to kidnap or enslave. Therefore the state cannot claim it.

Always remember that a vocal minority with the ear of politicians is a majority in a democracy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I entirely agree with you.</p>
<p>I can’t remember a government ever handing back &#8220;temporary&#8221; powers, and they will indeed use any excuse, not only wars to increase those powers, and yes they employ specialists in sounding reasonable. </p>
<p>For example Port Arthur was used as excuse to implement harsh gun control, when the reality was that if even one or two of the people there that day were carrying an evil concealed firearm, that dumb bastard would have been blown away rather quickly, probably not before doing damage, but you can’t have it all. If the possibility of an armed citizen had existed, it may not have happened at all. </p>
<p>But we wouldn’t want to be like America, would we?</p>
<p>The only protection against this, is to be incisive enough to see through those campaigns, articulate enough to argue effectively, loud enough to be heard, and thick skinned enough to cope with the vicious attacks this will bring down on your head.</p>
<p>Central power is, and always will be argued for, by governments. Your points are good. The fact is, and always will be, that the more complex society, or problems are, the less capable a central authority is to deal with the situation. </p>
<p>I could not ever support conscription. In a free society, governments derive their rights from the consent of the governed. As such, no government can claim rights that the individual does not have, as, if the individual does not have a right, they can not hand that right on to another.</p>
<p>Conscription is the forcible detention of people, against their wills, and forcing to render service against their wills. No individual has the right to kidnap or enslave. Therefore the state cannot claim it.</p>
<p>Always remember that a vocal minority with the ear of politicians is a majority in a democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: nicholas gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7740</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicholas gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My main point is that govmints will use any excuse, usually a war on something, to increase their powers. Canberra used WW2 to increase its&#039; powers of taxation. I admit that was for a good cause, but Canbra didn&#039;t give those powers back after the war.
The excuse now is that we are helping an ally, and that sounds noble, but govmints are good at sounding noble for their own reasons. All the causes sound like things you should support. as though opponents of them want to drown little kittens, but the ultimate reason is that it will simple draw more power to the center. Has there ever been a war which lessened central power? Aren&#039;t all those referendums which were rejected by us simply power grabs by Canbra, dressed up to sound good?
Yes, terrorists exist. Is the solution to give all power to the central governments? So that our own governments have the power to terrorise us?
I hope not. I hope that all libertarians will realise that the antidote to terror is knowledge and freedom. The antidote to terrorism is decentralisation, so that they have no centers to disrupt. The antidote to centralism is local democracy, not a top-heavy federalism.
Jimunro, if you think we should support the Americans, as an individual, I would agree! But I would hate to have our government conscript me &#039;for the greater good&#039;, and send me off to fight their wars. You and I should have the freedom to enlist in the side of our choice, or send money. I would gladly support the West that way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My main point is that govmints will use any excuse, usually a war on something, to increase their powers. Canberra used WW2 to increase its&#8217; powers of taxation. I admit that was for a good cause, but Canbra didn&#8217;t give those powers back after the war.<br />
The excuse now is that we are helping an ally, and that sounds noble, but govmints are good at sounding noble for their own reasons. All the causes sound like things you should support. as though opponents of them want to drown little kittens, but the ultimate reason is that it will simple draw more power to the center. Has there ever been a war which lessened central power? Aren&#8217;t all those referendums which were rejected by us simply power grabs by Canbra, dressed up to sound good?<br />
Yes, terrorists exist. Is the solution to give all power to the central governments? So that our own governments have the power to terrorise us?<br />
I hope not. I hope that all libertarians will realise that the antidote to terror is knowledge and freedom. The antidote to terrorism is decentralisation, so that they have no centers to disrupt. The antidote to centralism is local democracy, not a top-heavy federalism.<br />
Jimunro, if you think we should support the Americans, as an individual, I would agree! But I would hate to have our government conscript me &#8216;for the greater good&#8217;, and send me off to fight their wars. You and I should have the freedom to enlist in the side of our choice, or send money. I would gladly support the West that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimunro</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7724</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimunro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The short answer to your first question, yes. The US, an ally of ours, was attacked by forces under the protection of the Afghan government, who refused to hand them over. This constitutes a deliberate act of war against that ally. As such I have no problems with Australian involvement.

Our defense forces are strictly for volunteers only. If they wear the uniform they take the orders, asking for volunteers is not the way an army works.Volunteering in the military is like &quot;I want three volunteers, you, you, and you&quot;.

If in fact you are asking if non-military personnel should volunteer to fight there, that has already happened, the son of this towns Mayor for example has done two tours of Iraq as part of a US armored unit, has been wounded twice, and received a bravery award of some sort. I am sure that he is not alone.

I am not sure where you are coming from, with war on drugs/poverty, such statements are political rhetoric only, and should be treated as such. Don’t fall into the trap of believing politicians; they will con you every time. Wars on drugs, poverty, etc. are noble sounding campaigns to cover the creation of more government jobs, and to seize more power. 

As for the war on terror, several people have been charged, and some convicted, on terror related offences here already. Some of them involved planning operations here. The war on terror is here, now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The short answer to your first question, yes. The US, an ally of ours, was attacked by forces under the protection of the Afghan government, who refused to hand them over. This constitutes a deliberate act of war against that ally. As such I have no problems with Australian involvement.</p>
<p>Our defense forces are strictly for volunteers only. If they wear the uniform they take the orders, asking for volunteers is not the way an army works.Volunteering in the military is like &#8220;I want three volunteers, you, you, and you&#8221;.</p>
<p>If in fact you are asking if non-military personnel should volunteer to fight there, that has already happened, the son of this towns Mayor for example has done two tours of Iraq as part of a US armored unit, has been wounded twice, and received a bravery award of some sort. I am sure that he is not alone.</p>
<p>I am not sure where you are coming from, with war on drugs/poverty, such statements are political rhetoric only, and should be treated as such. Don’t fall into the trap of believing politicians; they will con you every time. Wars on drugs, poverty, etc. are noble sounding campaigns to cover the creation of more government jobs, and to seize more power. </p>
<p>As for the war on terror, several people have been charged, and some convicted, on terror related offences here already. Some of them involved planning operations here. The war on terror is here, now.</p>
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		<title>By: nicholas gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7705</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicholas gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is also the point that if we concede that &#039;our&#039; government can support other country&#039;s wars, then that is the same as the government declaring a vote-winning &#039;war&#039; on any fashionable cause (drugs/poverty/ terrorism/whatever). Taxes might need to be raised for the just war. If governments are limited, and can&#039;t just rush into wars, then you and I will have more money in our pockets to spend on our own causes, such as the war of our choice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also the point that if we concede that &#8216;our&#8217; government can support other country&#8217;s wars, then that is the same as the government declaring a vote-winning &#8216;war&#8217; on any fashionable cause (drugs/poverty/ terrorism/whatever). Taxes might need to be raised for the just war. If governments are limited, and can&#8217;t just rush into wars, then you and I will have more money in our pockets to spend on our own causes, such as the war of our choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hill</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7702</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Hill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[What&#039;s the real difference between financial and material support anyway?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s the real difference between financial and material support anyway?</p>
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		<title>By: nicholas gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7699</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nicholas gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/04/08/australias-us-insurance-policy/#comment-7699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jimunro, whilst the US went into Afghanistan, should the Australian Government have gone into the war, or should individual Australians have volunteered? Or just sent money to help the yanks, like muslims are being urged to do for Iran?
Maybe this will be the last word on this subject?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimunro, whilst the US went into Afghanistan, should the Australian Government have gone into the war, or should individual Australians have volunteered? Or just sent money to help the yanks, like muslims are being urged to do for Iran?<br />
Maybe this will be the last word on this subject?</p>
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