Comments on: Section 51(xxvi) of the Constitution – should it be removed? http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/ Australian Libertarian Society Blog Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:11:45 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: On Racism and Barack Obama « Thoughts on Freedom http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-48343 On Racism and Barack Obama « Thoughts on Freedom Sat, 07 Jun 2008 04:42:35 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-48343 [...] is not merely of the negative type. It is also positive. Thus, when Australia’s racist constitution permits the federal government to make laws based on race it does not matter one iota that these [...] [...] is not merely of the negative type. It is also positive. Thus, when Australia’s racist constitution permits the federal government to make laws based on race it does not matter one iota that these [...]

]]> By: Mark Hill http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25834 Mark Hill Thu, 23 Aug 2007 01:08:06 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25834 More of an argument for Citizen Initiated Referenda than for juries, if we apply what we think of the judiciary and comapre that Parliament... Another thing...I also would make it easier to remove a Judge. Now we need the Premier advising the Governor to do so and then both Houses of Parliament agreeing. I would give them a maxiumum of seven years tenure renewable only once if they aren't elected. I would make them removable by either impeachment (election) or Upper House approval of an executive order (appointment). More of an argument for Citizen Initiated Referenda than for juries, if we apply what we think of the judiciary and comapre that Parliament…

Another thing…I also would make it easier to remove a Judge. Now we need the Premier advising the Governor to do so and then both Houses of Parliament agreeing.

I would give them a maxiumum of seven years tenure renewable only once if they aren’t elected. I would make them removable by either impeachment (election) or Upper House approval of an executive order (appointment).

]]> By: DavidLeyonhjelm http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25802 DavidLeyonhjelm Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:30:25 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25802 Some commercial law could probably be privatised, but not criminal law. That's also where juries are mostly used. Who do you want deciding whether you are guilty of that crime you didn't commit? I'd prefer to take my chances with 12 good men and true than a judge of any description. Some commercial law could probably be privatised, but not criminal law. That’s also where juries are mostly used.

Who do you want deciding whether you are guilty of that crime you didn’t commit? I’d prefer to take my chances with 12 good men and true than a judge of any description.

]]> By: Mark Hill http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25752 Mark Hill Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:07:48 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25752 I know. So elect them or make them redundant by privatising the law. I know. So elect them or make them redundant by privatising the law.

]]> By: DavidLeyonhjelm http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25712 DavidLeyonhjelm Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:10:43 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25712 Mark, I doubt if you know too many judges. If you did you wouldn't want them passing judgement on you. The coercion in jury duty is not ideal, but I doubt whether a volunteer system would work. Therefore it becomes the lesser of two coercions - judges who have no idea about the real world but don't realise it (that amounts to at least three-quarters of them) or conscripted jurors. Jury duty is inconvenient but you get paid (a bit) and it's not exactly hard work. If they didn't jerk you around so much about whether and when you are needed, it wouldn't be a big ask. Judges can fall asleep during trials, drink like fish and totally lose their marbles without being removed. They're not my peers. Mark, I doubt if you know too many judges. If you did you wouldn’t want them passing judgement on you.

The coercion in jury duty is not ideal, but I doubt whether a volunteer system would work. Therefore it becomes the lesser of two coercions – judges who have no idea about the real world but don’t realise it (that amounts to at least three-quarters of them) or conscripted jurors.

Jury duty is inconvenient but you get paid (a bit) and it’s not exactly hard work. If they didn’t jerk you around so much about whether and when you are needed, it wouldn’t be a big ask.

Judges can fall asleep during trials, drink like fish and totally lose their marbles without being removed. They’re not my peers.

]]> By: Jim Fryar http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25711 Jim Fryar Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:07:39 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25711 An interesting point on coercion, back in the 70s one of our people I think Ron Manners,got a summons for jury duty and replied,"Thank you for your invitation, but I must decline owing to other commitments". I don't know how he got on. Regarding compensation I was informed it was $30 per day here in Qld. In my industry that is about the hourly starting rate for new blokes. An interesting point on coercion, back in the 70s one of our people I think Ron Manners,got a summons for jury duty and replied,”Thank you for your invitation, but I must decline owing to other commitments”.

I don’t know how he got on.

Regarding compensation I was informed it was $30 per day here in Qld. In my industry that is about the hourly starting rate for new blokes.

]]> By: Michael Sutcliffe http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25704 Michael Sutcliffe Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:10:15 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25704 I agree, so restore the original intent of the jury. Don't you think this offers greater protection against unlawful power being exercised by a ruling elite? Your system in #14 would make things more efficient. I think we want the inherent inefficiency of 'due process'. I agree, so restore the original intent of the jury. Don’t you think this offers greater protection against unlawful power being exercised by a ruling elite?

Your system in #14 would make things more efficient. I think we want the inherent inefficiency of ‘due process’.

]]> By: Mark Hill http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25692 Mark Hill Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:38:43 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25692 "Jury by peers" The concept was so the King and commoners couldn't judge you. Given the exemptions that can be made and jury consultants etc, it is hardly by "peers". I don't see what is not free or open about ending arbitrary coercion of jury members. “Jury by peers”

The concept was so the King and commoners couldn’t judge you.

Given the exemptions that can be made and jury consultants etc, it is hardly by “peers”.

I don’t see what is not free or open about ending arbitrary coercion of jury members.

]]> By: Michael Sutcliffe http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25673 Michael Sutcliffe Wed, 22 Aug 2007 03:04:48 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25673 I disagree with that one. Trial by a jury of your peers is essential to me. Professional jurors might be a way forward, or compensating the current jurors appropriately for their services. But I can't see a way around that is truly consistent with the open society. I disagree with that one. Trial by a jury of your peers is essential to me. Professional jurors might be a way forward, or compensating the current jurors appropriately for their services. But I can’t see a way around that is truly consistent with the open society.

]]> By: Mark Hill http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25665 Mark Hill Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:25:51 +0000 http://alsblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/section-51xxvi-of-the-constitution-should-it-be-removed/#comment-25665 One judge for comittal, trial and sentencing. A panel for appeals. One judge for comittal, trial and sentencing. A panel for appeals.

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