(Well, that depends on what your definition of what “as” is.)

it is plain dumb, no matter how you spin it.

Okay, let’s spin it in the direction of the “natural liars”.

Sen Kennedy: “President Nixon, is it true that you instigated the Watergate robbery?”

“(Well)..it depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is. If the–if he–if ‘is’ means is and never has been, that is not–that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement….Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you engaging in criminal conspiracy of any kind, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.”

“Hilary isn’t socialist”….

I agree. Who knows what she really believes in. She has a lot in common with the neoconservatives in that (I reckon) she will say and subsidise anything to get power. That’s scary, left or right wing.

A little bit like John Howard, actually.

As in, this isn’t an honorable way to engage in responsible discussion about politics and society, so just admit that or be seen as a juvenile (no other option available).

If ALS desires to be the Rush Limbaugh of the blogosphere, that’s another matter. In that case, I see this post as a good start.

On what basis would you call her leftist?

My emotions? I’m cool. It does irritate me when people claim that someone else’s fib is a license for them to lie.

If the quiz is out of context, fix it.

And I love the old Ken Starr line, that “is” means “was,” and “maybe.” The judge agreed with Clinton in that deposition. It does indeed depend on what the definition of “is” is. Starr was not allowed to stretch the definition.

Perhaps, Tim, you should tell Fryar to let his emotions settle. He’s the one defending the hoax quiz, in all of his political inexperience.

The quiz is a hoax. An honorable person would note it, and apologize.

I wasn’t basing my assessment on the above post as you imply.
And no one at this site “made up a hoax” as you allege.

Perhaps you should let your emotions die down so you can think straight before you make further comments. I have already noted that the comments were out of context.

Well, that depends on what your definition of *is*, is.

I assumed that I was talking to someone of reasonable intelligence however for anyone to claim, My experience is that Democrats generally consider it a point of honor to tell the facts regardless whether Republicans lie. indicates to me that that person is utterly dishonest, naive or delusional.

Stop wasting my time.

My experience is that Democrats generally consider it a point of honor to tell the facts regardless whether Republicans lie. Certainly Gore got nowhere doing that against Bush, but there is hope that somewhere there is a Republican who is a Boy Scout and has personal honor, and who thinks telling the truth is important.

If you think that someone else telling a whopper is license for you to do the same, the nation’s already lost if we have to depend on you.

I note that Democrats like yourself seem to expect fair treatment from the other side, and while you mention the inappropriate Michael Moore style extent of this context dropping it is of note that the Democrats have not repudiated him, as slippery, deceitful, spiteful, and ‘up himself’ as he is, he is too handy for you to have around.

Hillary is more than a socialist, she is an authoritarian who has no concept of individual sovereignty, and who I believe considers rights as something that come from the state, not the other way around.

What garbage. If you have to make up stuff to try to prove it, of course it’s not true.

No insurance plan that leaves insurance companies standing and making a profit is socialist, or left-wing. Hillary’s plan is, if anything, much too trimmed to meet crazy objections from misanthropes like y’all who think health care should be rationed to “them,” whoever you think “them” is.

Clinton isn’t blaming abortions on the free market. The Bush administration policy is to use the free market place of ideas to convince kids to stop having sex, thereby reducing abortion rates, STD rates, teen-age pregnancy rates, and bring back poodle skirts. In the free market of ideas, “just say no” hasn’t worked well. It has failed.

But of course, her accurate analysis of that situation, couched as it is in the language of serious policy discussion, isn’t crass enough to make you guys think. When some lying hack butchers the quote to try to make it appear Clinton was talking about economics, you go daft at both ends of the lie.

Facts are stubborn things indeed, as Uncle Ronnie used to say — and often too subtle for those who wish to paint good people as bad ones for their own nefarious reasons.

Hillary Clinton has and has had very socialist view points. She also often changes her message depending on who she is addressing. Like Bill Clinton she’ll pretend she’s not all left but while you can probably fool the right wingers (who these days support statism), you can’t fool libertarians.

There is no doubt about her left wing tendancies. eg/ Her universal health insurance plan.