Comments on: Fitna The Movie Is Out

By: shahrukh

shahrukh — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:05:09 +0000

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2274677605731263078&q=sheikh+pirzada&total=12&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

hello all of my jews and christian friends here is the video in response ( as you were askin for it) to the greed wilders non-sense video to spoil islam..but i am glad our religion is not protected by guns or nuclear weapons or by spoiling other religions but protected by by ALLAH the almighty (God) so muslims dont have to worry………..please see this video there are 2 parts please watch both the parts because this video is not made by anyone like greed wilders who has no knowledge of islam at all but made by a good scholor of islam who has a good knowledge of islam. you can also get this video in you tube just type the name of Shaykh Pirzada …please watch it carefully both the parts ..

By: Fitna « The Legal Soapbox

Fitna « The Legal Soapbox — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 06:51:30 +0000

[...] see what all the fuss was about. I had read some interesting reviews by Skepticlawyer at Catallaxy, Pommygranate at Australian Libertarian Society Blog and Saint at Dogfight At [...]

By: nicholas gray

nicholas gray — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 00:21:51 +0000

OR, Mark, you are wrong!
Ritual Christianity, I said, not religion. Jesus was here to do away with the old law, by fulfilling it completely. He not only celebrated Passover, he became a part of it! Whilst he wanted his disciples to remember him, he did not otherwise establish fixed rites- it was humans who wanted mindless actions, without having to think about things, or apply the words of Jesus to their lives. For instance, once a year, the Pope washes people’s feet. I bet that is the only time he does it! And he never had another humble thought for a whole year. It’s become a ritual, and therefore meaningless.

By: NyutNyut

NyutNyut — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:05:46 +0000

manate berok anok anying!

By: Mark Hill

Mark Hill — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:16:02 +0000

Ritualised religion? Jesus celebrated passover didn’t he?

Either you are wrong or your God is.

By: nicholas gray

nicholas gray — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:04:38 +0000

Tim,
Hard work has existed throughout history, but the Protestants were the ones who believed that hard work could be ennobling, and that exterior work could be a sign of an interior faith. If a man worked hard, and earned wealth thereby, he had a right to it. Did other cultures claim this about hard work? Or did they claim that the ‘upper’ classes (the whip-wielders) had a divine right to dominate?
If you google “aristotle on Slavery”, you will find that Aristotle justified slavery on varied grounds. One of them was race. Barbarians (non-Greeks) were natural slaves, simply because they weren’t Greeks. (And so were Women. Well, he got ONE thing right!)
I am reading an amazing book about Jesus called “What Jesus meant”. It reveals how radical he was- seen with all sorts of ritually-unclean people like Tax Collectors, drinkers, gluttons, and working-class people with really common names like Simon and Andrew! The man was a bohemian before they thought of the word! Why, he judged people by what they did, not who their parents were! He even tried to get people to drop their racial prejudices, by declaring they should love everyone, not just their kin and kith! (Yes, even those mixed-race mongrels next door called the Samaritans!) That was the real point about the command to love your neighbour- he was trying to shake them out of their racist attitudes. If you look at the context, you’ll see what I mean.
Ritual Christianity put a stop to all that, and built up a power-structure that Jesus was always raling against, but that was dispite his words, not because of them.

By: Tim R

Tim R — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:47:31 +0000

Nicholas,
Hard work is not a pre-condition for capitalism, hard work was not exculsive to Calvinists and existed throughout history.

Capitalist ideas probably developed initially in Roman Catholic Italy, not in Switzerland where Calvin was based. There is much evidence to suggest that Capitalist Europe had its roots in the pre-reformation era. Thomas Aquinas who I quoted earlier pre-dates the reformation by at least 200 years for example.

It’s more important to ask yourself why the schism in the Roman Catholic church came about in the first place, than to say the schism happened and that this caused a change in people’s thinking. You’ve got cause and effect around the wrong way. Individualism was on the rise, and this caused people to demand the bible be in their native language and many other pro-individual ideas. Protestants originate from Rome.

I think it’s very clear that religion had little to do with the renaissance and fought it quite hard in some areas.

It’s a classic case of correlation not causation.

By: randalljones

randalljones — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 10:57:34 +0000

John Hasenkam,

You are making sweeping generalizations that make no sense. You will have to give specific examples. Besides much of Europe is steadily becoming less and less religious. The same is true with the United States, although in surveys people will say they are religious, but most don’t go to church regularly.

The United States is the number one seller of weapons, even selling them to unstable regions and they have sold them to opposite sides of conflicts, like in the Iran-Iraq war and the Congo.

As I have mentioned before, the region where the most killing and rapes are occurring is the Christian Congo.But Westerners are not too concerned about that because the United States, Europe, and Israel benefit from the diamonds, other natural resources, slave labor, and sale of weapons to the Congo

John Greenfield,

You can not really categorize things strictly by religion, there is so much overlapping. Western countries have a long history of collaborating with Muslim extremists (as well as dictators and kings) to prevent the development of secular democratic governments in Third world countries because they have financial or strategic interests in them.

By: nicholas gray

nicholas gray — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 05:53:59 +0000

Timbaby, stop pouting. Here comes your come-uppance!
Capitalism was a direct result of the Protestant work ethic, which developed from Calvinism. People could prove, through their industry (one of the seven virtues), that they were following the divine word, as revealed in the Bible. Whilst works alone didn’t guarantee salvation, they were a sign of a busy soul (The devil finds work for idle hands, and all that.). Which other philosophy lauded work and its’ reward? And didn’t Aristotle think that slavery was natural, therefore right? In fact wasn’t Aristotle an advocate of an Aristocracy? And weren’t the Protestant Swiss and Protestant Dutch havens of Capitalism, and wealth, because of their work ethics?
Whilst Catholicism might have a lot to answer for, Protestantism has a lot to be proud of.

By: John Hasenkam

John Hasenkam — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 05:46:20 +0000

That’s right pommygranite, and in the main christians today are more interested in doing good in the world rather than killing people to defend their faith. So perhaps to take a post millenialist perspective, it is as if christianity slowly evolves a higher ethical system more in line with the wishes of its founder. Islam, however, at least under these extremists, is falling back into barbarism.