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	<title>Comments on: Coalition Against Prohibition</title>
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	<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/</link>
	<description>Australian Libertarian Society Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Jim Fryar</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-47034</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Fryar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 12:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-47034</guid>
		<description>I think all of this proves that where a demand exists a supply system will arise to meet it. The &#039;black market&#039; is after all only the free market in an oppressive environment. It does to some extent justify our faith in the free market, proving that it will endure under the utmost difficulty.

Certainly the sellers are not your everyday shopkeeper or mostly not. It would be a bit difficult to cast these people as heroes of free enterprise, although taking the fact that most of the laws against their activities are unjust and unnecessary perhaps they do have a claim.  Those who resist oppression have to be tougher than the general community, and as the law of subservient society will not enforce contracts or protect their rights they tend to have standards outside the mores of that society.

These people only exist because of the law, not in spite of it. Who is worse after all, the silly kid who smokes a joint, or the private prison owners referred to in the above video who hire lobbyists to push for three strike laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think all of this proves that where a demand exists a supply system will arise to meet it. The &#8216;black market&#8217; is after all only the free market in an oppressive environment. It does to some extent justify our faith in the free market, proving that it will endure under the utmost difficulty.</p>
<p>Certainly the sellers are not your everyday shopkeeper or mostly not. It would be a bit difficult to cast these people as heroes of free enterprise, although taking the fact that most of the laws against their activities are unjust and unnecessary perhaps they do have a claim.  Those who resist oppression have to be tougher than the general community, and as the law of subservient society will not enforce contracts or protect their rights they tend to have standards outside the mores of that society.</p>
<p>These people only exist because of the law, not in spite of it. Who is worse after all, the silly kid who smokes a joint, or the private prison owners referred to in the above video who hire lobbyists to push for three strike laws.</p>
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		<title>By: nicholas gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-47026</link>
		<dc:creator>nicholas gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 03:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-47026</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a fascinating, real-life catch-22 being discussed in Samizdata.net, about British Justice. A man is being charged with dealing in drugs worth millions of pounds. He cannot defend himself, because his wealth has been frozen (so he can&#039;t hire any lawyer), and he can&#039;t use Legal aid, because of his (frozen) wealth!
HOWEVER, the government has shot itself in the foot, because the rates for Barristers are so low, it can&#039;t hire anyone to sort through the legal details, so it may have to scrap the case!
Wasn&#039;t it the comedian Will Rogers who said, &quot;I&#039;m not a comedian- I just watch the government, and report the facts!&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a fascinating, real-life catch-22 being discussed in Samizdata.net, about British Justice. A man is being charged with dealing in drugs worth millions of pounds. He cannot defend himself, because his wealth has been frozen (so he can&#8217;t hire any lawyer), and he can&#8217;t use Legal aid, because of his (frozen) wealth!<br />
HOWEVER, the government has shot itself in the foot, because the rates for Barristers are so low, it can&#8217;t hire anyone to sort through the legal details, so it may have to scrap the case!<br />
Wasn&#8217;t it the comedian Will Rogers who said, &#8220;I&#8217;m not a comedian- I just watch the government, and report the facts!&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hill</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-47023</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 02:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-47023</guid>
		<description>But also, US right wing commentator Michelle Malkin shows up the war on drugs and sin taxes to be a deadly, terrorist supporting farce:

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1604

&quot;The indictment of one of the ring members says he traveled to Lebanon three years ago and delivered a $3,500 payment to a Hezbollah military commander.

If not for taxaholic bureaucrats, this suspected terrorist operation wouldn&#039;t have gotten off the ground. States addicted to nicotine-stained revenue are all too happy to participate in the sanctimonious charade of condemning the vice while pocketing a chunk of the profits. But those who advocate punitive tobacco taxes to reduce smoking and &quot;protect kids&quot; continue to ignore the connection between sin taxes and illegal sales. Every state along the East Coast that has slapped astronomical and regressive taxes on tobacco has been invaded by increasingly savvy and organized smugglers. &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But also, US right wing commentator Michelle Malkin shows up the war on drugs and sin taxes to be a deadly, terrorist supporting farce:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1604" rel="nofollow">http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1604</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The indictment of one of the ring members says he traveled to Lebanon three years ago and delivered a $3,500 payment to a Hezbollah military commander.</p>
<p>If not for taxaholic bureaucrats, this suspected terrorist operation wouldn&#8217;t have gotten off the ground. States addicted to nicotine-stained revenue are all too happy to participate in the sanctimonious charade of condemning the vice while pocketing a chunk of the profits. But those who advocate punitive tobacco taxes to reduce smoking and &#8220;protect kids&#8221; continue to ignore the connection between sin taxes and illegal sales. Every state along the East Coast that has slapped astronomical and regressive taxes on tobacco has been invaded by increasingly savvy and organized smugglers. &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hill</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-47022</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 01:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-47022</guid>
		<description>Michael is quite right.

A story was done on how the tax makes farmers dirt poor and encourages murder, by one of Australia&#039;s flagship Current Affairs programmes:

http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/transcript_1795.asp

ADAM SHAND: &quot;The stakes in this game are high. To the grower, a 100kg bail of tobacco is worth a maximum of $850. With government excise added, the value skyrockets to $29,000. A farmer like Tony Bonacci, on 10 hectares, puts $10 million into government coffers each year. In 2004, he made a loss on his crop. He says he doesn&#039;t do chop chop, but he has certainly thought about it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael is quite right.</p>
<p>A story was done on how the tax makes farmers dirt poor and encourages murder, by one of Australia&#8217;s flagship Current Affairs programmes:</p>
<p><a href="http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/transcript_1795.asp" rel="nofollow">http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/transcript_1795.asp</a></p>
<p>ADAM SHAND: &#8220;The stakes in this game are high. To the grower, a 100kg bail of tobacco is worth a maximum of $850. With government excise added, the value skyrockets to $29,000. A farmer like Tony Bonacci, on 10 hectares, puts $10 million into government coffers each year. In 2004, he made a loss on his crop. He says he doesn&#8217;t do chop chop, but he has certainly thought about it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: nicholas gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-47021</link>
		<dc:creator>nicholas gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 00:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-47021</guid>
		<description>Here are some suggestions- we point to Switzerland&#039;s low rate of massacres (I think it is zero) and their high rate of gun-ownership (because of conscription into the armed forces), and point out that culture, not guns, causes massacres. Therefore, sell guns only to people who first are well-trained in their use, or are part of some recognised militia group, or something along these lines.
Another suggestion- all laws have sunset clauses, meaning they come up for periodic review. Only good laws would be recycled, meaning bad laws, or dead-letter laws, just cluttering up the law-books, would be expunged. This would also keep pollies engaged fulltime, giving them little chance to impose new laws on us. A win all round!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some suggestions- we point to Switzerland&#8217;s low rate of massacres (I think it is zero) and their high rate of gun-ownership (because of conscription into the armed forces), and point out that culture, not guns, causes massacres. Therefore, sell guns only to people who first are well-trained in their use, or are part of some recognised militia group, or something along these lines.<br />
Another suggestion- all laws have sunset clauses, meaning they come up for periodic review. Only good laws would be recycled, meaning bad laws, or dead-letter laws, just cluttering up the law-books, would be expunged. This would also keep pollies engaged fulltime, giving them little chance to impose new laws on us. A win all round!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-47018</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 00:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-47018</guid>
		<description>Very good point Michael. If you outlaw a product (or anything for that matter) you force it underground. The perils of this were seen in the alcohol prohibition in the US where criminals ruled the alcohol trade and poor quality product made with wood alcohol turned people blind.

What can we expect from repeal of prohibition from drugs? Safer drugs and slitting the throat of a large criminal element in Australia. We would also remove one of the worst outcomes of prohibition which makes it easier for an underage kid to buy pot than it is to buy booze.

What about ending prohibition of guns for protection in Australia? It&#039;s a little harder to say because we don&#039;t have a culture of guns here. If we take into account the very obvious fact that more guns in law abiding citizens hands is a good thing and less guns in criminal hands is a bad thing then ending prohibition is the best option for this country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good point Michael. If you outlaw a product (or anything for that matter) you force it underground. The perils of this were seen in the alcohol prohibition in the US where criminals ruled the alcohol trade and poor quality product made with wood alcohol turned people blind.</p>
<p>What can we expect from repeal of prohibition from drugs? Safer drugs and slitting the throat of a large criminal element in Australia. We would also remove one of the worst outcomes of prohibition which makes it easier for an underage kid to buy pot than it is to buy booze.</p>
<p>What about ending prohibition of guns for protection in Australia? It&#8217;s a little harder to say because we don&#8217;t have a culture of guns here. If we take into account the very obvious fact that more guns in law abiding citizens hands is a good thing and less guns in criminal hands is a bad thing then ending prohibition is the best option for this country.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. McFadden</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-47016</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. McFadden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-47016</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s important to remember that the perils of Prohibition can be duplicated by over-taxation.  Right now cigarettes are being taxed at a rate far in excess of 100% of base product price and the results are being felt everywhere in terms of black marketeering, smuggling, and violence.  If gasoline were taxed at the same rate as tobacco we&#039;d be seeing gas prices of ten to twenty dollars per gallon instead of five.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of &quot;Dissecting Antismokers&#039; Brains&quot;
http://encyclopedia.smokersclub.com/130.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s important to remember that the perils of Prohibition can be duplicated by over-taxation.  Right now cigarettes are being taxed at a rate far in excess of 100% of base product price and the results are being felt everywhere in terms of black marketeering, smuggling, and violence.  If gasoline were taxed at the same rate as tobacco we&#8217;d be seeing gas prices of ten to twenty dollars per gallon instead of five.</p>
<p>Michael J. McFadden<br />
Author of &#8220;Dissecting Antismokers&#8217; Brains&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://encyclopedia.smokersclub.com/130.html" rel="nofollow">http://encyclopedia.smokersclub.com/130.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: nicholas gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-47008</link>
		<dc:creator>nicholas gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 07:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-47008</guid>
		<description>What could be the catch-cry of this coalition? &quot;The only thing we intend to prohibit is prohibition itself!&quot;, maybe? People might like the self-contradicting message, and remember it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What could be the catch-cry of this coalition? &#8220;The only thing we intend to prohibit is prohibition itself!&#8221;, maybe? People might like the self-contradicting message, and remember it.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidLeyonhjelm</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-46947</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidLeyonhjelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 23:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-46947</guid>
		<description>There is little or no evidence to show that strict gun laws lead to crime control. On the other hand there is a solid statistical correlation between strict gun laws and higher crime, and between relaxed gun laws and lower crime.  

I acknowledge a correlation is not the same as an explanation. Nonetheless, I am convinced there is a cause and effect relationship. Most people are not criminals, therefore by having guns they can use them to reduce the activities of criminals. Without guns, they find it more difficult. 

I sure hope this ICAP initiative makes a difference. The &#039;regulate first and regulate some more&#039; mentality is depressing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is little or no evidence to show that strict gun laws lead to crime control. On the other hand there is a solid statistical correlation between strict gun laws and higher crime, and between relaxed gun laws and lower crime.  </p>
<p>I acknowledge a correlation is not the same as an explanation. Nonetheless, I am convinced there is a cause and effect relationship. Most people are not criminals, therefore by having guns they can use them to reduce the activities of criminals. Without guns, they find it more difficult. </p>
<p>I sure hope this ICAP initiative makes a difference. The &#8216;regulate first and regulate some more&#8217; mentality is depressing.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Fryar</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/03/coalition-against-prohibition/#comment-46929</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Fryar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 14:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=613#comment-46929</guid>
		<description>Ok, that seems to be back, sorry mate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, that seems to be back, sorry mate.</p>
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