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	<title>Comments on: Are the Rich undertaxed?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/</link>
	<description>Australian Libertarian Society Blog</description>
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		<title>By: think and grow rich pdf</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-97311</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[think and grow rich pdf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=629#comment-97311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Home business owners all across the globe are quietly making yearly six-figure incomes. Several of them make six-figures by helping aspiring entrepreneurs start their path to their very own six-figures. What a gorgeous idea!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Home business owners all across the globe are quietly making yearly six-figure incomes. Several of them make six-figures by helping aspiring entrepreneurs start their path to their very own six-figures. What a gorgeous idea!</p>
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		<title>By: Fleeced</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-47257</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fleeced]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=629#comment-47257</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;Different jurisdictions can try different mixes. Ah — the joys of competition.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Regional monopolies aren&#039;t real competition though, are they?  They&#039;re better than one centralised monopoly, but still...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Different jurisdictions can try different mixes. Ah — the joys of competition.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Regional monopolies aren&#8217;t real competition though, are they?  They&#8217;re better than one centralised monopoly, but still&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: TerjeP (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-47256</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TerjeP (say tay-a)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I agree that we should be aiming to abolish income tax without increasing GST. All they have to do is hold real per capita government spending steady for a decade and economic growth will elliminate the need for most of the income tax. 

I disagree with Pommy when he says abolishing the income tax is politically impossible. It is merely very difficult. We got rid of inheritance tax and nobody speaks of it much these days. 

Riley highlights a very important point which is the question of who really pays the higher income tax applied to high income earners. Putting extra tax on rare resources like doctors, professionals and managers makes little sense. Would anybody suggest putting a higher GST on essential services such as health care?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that we should be aiming to abolish income tax without increasing GST. All they have to do is hold real per capita government spending steady for a decade and economic growth will elliminate the need for most of the income tax. </p>
<p>I disagree with Pommy when he says abolishing the income tax is politically impossible. It is merely very difficult. We got rid of inheritance tax and nobody speaks of it much these days. </p>
<p>Riley highlights a very important point which is the question of who really pays the higher income tax applied to high income earners. Putting extra tax on rare resources like doctors, professionals and managers makes little sense. Would anybody suggest putting a higher GST on essential services such as health care?</p>
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		<title>By: Temujin</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-47253</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Temujin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 21:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=629#comment-47253</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No need to call for an increase in the GST. Just abolish income taxes and decentralise the rest of the taxing/spending decisions to lower levels of government. A limited federal govt could get by on about $30b, which comes from &quot;other&quot; and &quot;excises&quot;.

Then the states can compete on their tax/spending mix. Victoria can introduce a 30% GST and a state-based progressive income tax... and use the funds to support a fabulous health system and high pension. Qld can do the oppose (insh&#039;allah). Different jurisdictions can try different mixes. Ah -- the joys of competition.

Federalism is a great answer to a lot of political questions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No need to call for an increase in the GST. Just abolish income taxes and decentralise the rest of the taxing/spending decisions to lower levels of government. A limited federal govt could get by on about $30b, which comes from &#8220;other&#8221; and &#8220;excises&#8221;.</p>
<p>Then the states can compete on their tax/spending mix. Victoria can introduce a 30% GST and a state-based progressive income tax&#8230; and use the funds to support a fabulous health system and high pension. Qld can do the oppose (insh&#8217;allah). Different jurisdictions can try different mixes. Ah &#8212; the joys of competition.</p>
<p>Federalism is a great answer to a lot of political questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Riley O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-47238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Riley O'Neill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 20:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=629#comment-47238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here in America there are small government groups proposing something known as the fair tax.  It is a federal sales tax that would replace the federal income tax (and I believe the inheritance as well).  I think they put it at somewhere around 28% or so.  One of the stipulations it has is that it would provide a welfare benefit to everyone and cut a check to all Americans each year to cover the tax increase on food/clothing for struggling families.  As currently written though the fair tax does not address the size of government and does not plan to totally abolish the income tax just shifting income tax liability around.  So at some point in the future we may have a 23% sales tax and a 25% income tax.  Like I have mentioned before, at our current size of government it does not matter how he money is collected.  35-40% of the GDP going to the government is going to look pretty ugly no matter how you collect it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in America there are small government groups proposing something known as the fair tax.  It is a federal sales tax that would replace the federal income tax (and I believe the inheritance as well).  I think they put it at somewhere around 28% or so.  One of the stipulations it has is that it would provide a welfare benefit to everyone and cut a check to all Americans each year to cover the tax increase on food/clothing for struggling families.  As currently written though the fair tax does not address the size of government and does not plan to totally abolish the income tax just shifting income tax liability around.  So at some point in the future we may have a 23% sales tax and a 25% income tax.  Like I have mentioned before, at our current size of government it does not matter how he money is collected.  35-40% of the GDP going to the government is going to look pretty ugly no matter how you collect it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hill</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-47214</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Hill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 04:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=629#comment-47214</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shem - the next time you are at uni, pick up a good book by Joeseph Stuglitz (yes, before he went native) called  Economics of the Public Sector: Third Edition, W.W. Norton &amp; Company, February 2000. It has some minor flaws such as the discussion of some mythycal market failures, but the tax analysis is simple to understand but analytically very good and deep. 

A GST and a basic income are analogous to a negative income tax, but for the efficiency advantages. 

I think if we can look at this and the Medicare as HECS/vouchers, school vouchers and disabled care issues, libertarianism has a good chance of getting a lot more support at the next election.

That said, the cumulative and mutlisectoral impacts of taxation on the final price of any good is simply crippling to our economy. This has causes real suffering for real people, if any sceptics will quip &quot;just theory&quot; or &quot;just data&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shem &#8211; the next time you are at uni, pick up a good book by Joeseph Stuglitz (yes, before he went native) called  Economics of the Public Sector: Third Edition, W.W. Norton &amp; Company, February 2000. It has some minor flaws such as the discussion of some mythycal market failures, but the tax analysis is simple to understand but analytically very good and deep. </p>
<p>A GST and a basic income are analogous to a negative income tax, but for the efficiency advantages. </p>
<p>I think if we can look at this and the Medicare as HECS/vouchers, school vouchers and disabled care issues, libertarianism has a good chance of getting a lot more support at the next election.</p>
<p>That said, the cumulative and mutlisectoral impacts of taxation on the final price of any good is simply crippling to our economy. This has causes real suffering for real people, if any sceptics will quip &#8220;just theory&#8221; or &#8220;just data&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Fleeced</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-47213</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fleeced]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 03:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=629#comment-47213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The 50% figure I quoted was for the current tax revenues of course (and assuming the first 10% was still locked up with the states)... I actually agree with Mark that GST is better in many ways - and we could easily bring the level down.

Another way of selling GST as opposed to income tax is it&#039;s effect on trade, since imports and local-produced are taxed evenly... we always talk up free trade (as we should), but locally produced stuff carries a huge tax burden.  On that score, you might even be able to win over some of the protectionists.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 50% figure I quoted was for the current tax revenues of course (and assuming the first 10% was still locked up with the states)&#8230; I actually agree with Mark that GST is better in many ways &#8211; and we could easily bring the level down.</p>
<p>Another way of selling GST as opposed to income tax is it&#8217;s effect on trade, since imports and local-produced are taxed evenly&#8230; we always talk up free trade (as we should), but locally produced stuff carries a huge tax burden.  On that score, you might even be able to win over some of the protectionists.</p>
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		<title>By: Shem Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-47205</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shem Bennett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 01:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=629#comment-47205</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it definitely warrants discussion. I don&#039;t know enough about economics to say whether a GST or a flat tax with a high tax-free threshold would be better. But I think they are both much better than the current system.

I also think in terms of taxation the powers should be returned to the states so we can see competitive federalism at work.

I would be happy to try replacing income tax with GST as policy for the LDP. I know even &quot;average Joes&quot; can agree with the idea of taxing what you buy instead of what you earn. It encourages saving instead of spending.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it definitely warrants discussion. I don&#8217;t know enough about economics to say whether a GST or a flat tax with a high tax-free threshold would be better. But I think they are both much better than the current system.</p>
<p>I also think in terms of taxation the powers should be returned to the states so we can see competitive federalism at work.</p>
<p>I would be happy to try replacing income tax with GST as policy for the LDP. I know even &#8220;average Joes&#8221; can agree with the idea of taxing what you buy instead of what you earn. It encourages saving instead of spending.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hill</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-47203</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Hill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 01:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=629#comment-47203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I mentioned above welfare should be adjusted accordingly.

If you assume 28.2 % of GDP, the tax needs to be set roughly at 39.2% to run a balanced budget.

This assumes no efficiency gains, no elimination of duplication and no libertarian reforms if there is a shortfall.

You would be better off. Your clothes would be at least 17.5% cheaper. Your new car when you graduate would be close to 30% cheaper. It goes on.

Basically the GST would be the direct resource cost excluding a much smaller proportion of deadweight losses. So it is efficient like a head tax but far more equitable and feasible.

The real sad thing about this is tax reform just isn&#039;t taken seriously. We know the deadweight losses are high, the rates are high and taxes inefficient. What is even more alarming is that little comment is made to the fact that we tax nearly every stage of production directly and indirectly with a myriad of direct and indirect taxes which change incentives and lead to a loss of productive output. 

Think of something simple like a carton of milk. How much did each input get taxed to give you a maybe $2.50 1 ltr carton of milk?

How much would it cost with a simple high and low GST with different deadweight loss scenarios?

Of course, what ever the starting rate (I suggest 20%) the idea is to incrementally lower it - libertarianism by stealth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mentioned above welfare should be adjusted accordingly.</p>
<p>If you assume 28.2 % of GDP, the tax needs to be set roughly at 39.2% to run a balanced budget.</p>
<p>This assumes no efficiency gains, no elimination of duplication and no libertarian reforms if there is a shortfall.</p>
<p>You would be better off. Your clothes would be at least 17.5% cheaper. Your new car when you graduate would be close to 30% cheaper. It goes on.</p>
<p>Basically the GST would be the direct resource cost excluding a much smaller proportion of deadweight losses. So it is efficient like a head tax but far more equitable and feasible.</p>
<p>The real sad thing about this is tax reform just isn&#8217;t taken seriously. We know the deadweight losses are high, the rates are high and taxes inefficient. What is even more alarming is that little comment is made to the fact that we tax nearly every stage of production directly and indirectly with a myriad of direct and indirect taxes which change incentives and lead to a loss of productive output. </p>
<p>Think of something simple like a carton of milk. How much did each input get taxed to give you a maybe $2.50 1 ltr carton of milk?</p>
<p>How much would it cost with a simple high and low GST with different deadweight loss scenarios?</p>
<p>Of course, what ever the starting rate (I suggest 20%) the idea is to incrementally lower it &#8211; libertarianism by stealth.</p>
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		<title>By: Shem Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/05/12/are-the-rich-undertaxed/#comment-47202</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shem Bennett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 01:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=629#comment-47202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What, even bludging Uni students on Centrelink would be better off? I don&#039;t pay income tax, so there better be a rabbit in your hat there if you are making my groceries cost 10% more ;)

Of course I&#039;m less interested in my own current finances than a more efficient tax system. I like the idea of a consumption tax- it is more ethical, but it has to be costed and it has to be salable. The other problem is leakage- a sales tax would have to apply to all imported goods (something the GST doesn&#039;t now- like if I buy stuff on ebay). But there&#039;s still the potential for a black market to evade GST if it makes up a larger part of the cost of goods.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, even bludging Uni students on Centrelink would be better off? I don&#8217;t pay income tax, so there better be a rabbit in your hat there if you are making my groceries cost 10% more <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Of course I&#8217;m less interested in my own current finances than a more efficient tax system. I like the idea of a consumption tax- it is more ethical, but it has to be costed and it has to be salable. The other problem is leakage- a sales tax would have to apply to all imported goods (something the GST doesn&#8217;t now- like if I buy stuff on ebay). But there&#8217;s still the potential for a black market to evade GST if it makes up a larger part of the cost of goods.</p>
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