Comments on: Dependent on the government

By: Austrolabe » Depending on government

Austrolabe » Depending on government — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:23:08 +0000

[...] at the ALS Blog makes an interesting observation: In the early 1960s, 3% of Australians relied on the government [...]

By: Temujin

Temujin — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 00:33:50 +0000

Papa — if you include recipients of middle-class welfare then the number is 100%. We all take some sort of welfare benefit from the government, even if it’s just a 30% government subsidy for your healthcare. Even if you just include direct cash payments, the number would be much higher than 17.5%.

The 17.5% number is just for people who get a significant amount of their net income from the government.

Scary huh?

Fleeced — the reference is the document being released today. I haven’t linked it because it’s not online yet. I had a pre-released version because I authored another chapter in the document.

By: Fleeced

Fleeced — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:03:30 +0000

We’ve discussed restricting votes before. Didn’t seem too popular Of course, my arguments were primarily on spending (ie, financial conflict of interest).

How did you come up with a 17.5% figure? Any references?

By: Papachango

Papachango — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:20:55 +0000

17.5% still seems high. Does it include recipients of so-called middle class welfare, or just those whose handouts from the government are more than they pay in tax?

Interesting theory, but what about the other 82.5% of voters – surely they’re not all going to vote for more handouts as well? I would have thought a fair chunk of them would view the 17.5% as bludgers, spurred on by sensationalist ACA and TT reports.

By: TerjeP (say tay-a)

TerjeP (say tay-a) — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:49:25 +0000

Perhaps this dynamic explains the steady growth of government throughout the developed world. If so, it raises some very difficult questions about how this trend can ever be reversed.

John,

Slighly off topic but this prompted a memory. The author I spoke to you about recently (whose name alluded me at that time) was Ibn Khaldun. Whilst I have only read extracts of his work he was very concerned with the rise and fall of empires and the factors at play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqaddimah

In short empires rise, suck resources to the centre and then collapse because of this.

Back on topic. Political collapse is one extreme way to reverse the dependency trend.

By: Temujin

Temujin — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:36:27 +0000

You’re right Papa — I’m just talking about welfare.

By: Papachango

Papachango — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:45:24 +0000

When you say ’17.5% of Australians rely on the government for most their income’, I’m assuming you mean welfare as opposed to working for a government department?

(though some wags might argue its effectively the same thing…)