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	<title>Comments on: Financial crisis optimism</title>
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	<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/</link>
	<description>Australian Libertarian Society Blog</description>
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		<title>By: The night race in Singapore &#171; Chapter 5</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-54126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The night race in Singapore &#171; Chapter 5]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-54126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] guitar, watched the first season of the Rome mini-series and spent a bit of time looking into the financial crisis and the bail-out. Finally, I arranged a flight to Phnom Penh (Cambodia) on Friday (3 October) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] guitar, watched the first season of the Rome mini-series and spent a bit of time looking into the financial crisis and the bail-out. Finally, I arranged a flight to Phnom Penh (Cambodia) on Friday (3 October) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: E.D.</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-54005</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E.D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 05:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-54005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Attempted post #4
Has anyone ever seen an audience applause the Austrian Theory of the Business Cycle? Check out these dudes, esp. @6min.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzxdzHxp9yU]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Attempted post #4<br />
Has anyone ever seen an audience applause the Austrian Theory of the Business Cycle? Check out these dudes, esp. @6min.</p>
<p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/yzxdzHxp9yU/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
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		<title>By: graemebird</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-53933</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[graemebird]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-53933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shem. The Australian money supply was collapsing from December last year to about June this year.

So it isn&#039;t too surprising that it got valuable all of a sudden. Being as the money supply is ultimately the supply of AUD.

And you see recently with the USD trouble. This also is likely (I haven&#039;t seen the figures) a result of a restriction in USD money supply on account of recent USD ponzi-money collapse due to these bank problems. But this latter I don&#039;t know for sure.

There is another deal going on with Australia as a commodity exporter. As Terje often points out, excesses of money supply increases overblows the price of commodities. But in this game there are now two players. If both America and China had collapsing money supplies we would see some effect of the AUD via commodity prices. Our dollar would be like a double loser against these two.

This makes AUD commodity companies good investment plays. Because when this bailout inflation hits town there will be two or three things making BHP or Rio shares go up locally and at the same time our dollar go up.

And its going to happen. Because the Treasury and the Fed are run by inflationists and thieves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shem. The Australian money supply was collapsing from December last year to about June this year.</p>
<p>So it isn&#8217;t too surprising that it got valuable all of a sudden. Being as the money supply is ultimately the supply of AUD.</p>
<p>And you see recently with the USD trouble. This also is likely (I haven&#8217;t seen the figures) a result of a restriction in USD money supply on account of recent USD ponzi-money collapse due to these bank problems. But this latter I don&#8217;t know for sure.</p>
<p>There is another deal going on with Australia as a commodity exporter. As Terje often points out, excesses of money supply increases overblows the price of commodities. But in this game there are now two players. If both America and China had collapsing money supplies we would see some effect of the AUD via commodity prices. Our dollar would be like a double loser against these two.</p>
<p>This makes AUD commodity companies good investment plays. Because when this bailout inflation hits town there will be two or three things making BHP or Rio shares go up locally and at the same time our dollar go up.</p>
<p>And its going to happen. Because the Treasury and the Fed are run by inflationists and thieves.</p>
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		<title>By: graemebird</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-53926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[graemebird]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-53926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David. You ought to direct your questions about malinvestment to me where I know that my posts aren&#039;t going to be blocked.

Under 100% backed commodity-money we can say that debt creates wealth when you use it to improve your cashflow. 

The reason for this is that in a hard money world nobody is foolish enough to ever rely on capital gains. Its a high-yield world and cash-flow is King.

So all this investment in housing is just about all malinvestment, from this point of view. Because housing is a consumer durable and yet we treat it as an investment good. We only treat it as an investment good because of currency debasement.

Now this talk about malinvestment. This term tends to be thrown around as an absolutist term. But its all relative. In the sense that you can make better and better investments. And ones that make no sense.

In an inflationary period people make investments that might make sense from their personal point of view but that make no sense from the point of view of the free market being a sort of rational system.

We all flip houses. We make investments that don&#039;t improve cashflow. But also in the commercial world people make investments that there aren&#039;t the resources for. OR AT LEAST THIS IS HOW IT PANNED OUT UNDER FRACTIONAL-RESERVE-GOLD.

The quality of investments fall, viewed from a Gods-Eye point of view.  But there is also an issue about manufacturers making investments that the resources don&#039;t support leading to cost overuns and long-term projects being abandoned mid-way through.

((((((This is what I&#039;ve tried to impress on our young economics grads but so far without success. They seem to think that our trade deficits are all fair and good and that we ought lose our manufacturing. Whereas I&#039;ve tried to explain that our manufacturing is being devastated by these esoteric monetary considerations....)))))))


But this latter phenomenon doesn&#039;t tend to happen these days in the way that Mises described it. Because our floating exchange rate system and the scope of international trade means that the projects do not now tend to get abandoned mid-stream like that.

Instead our manufacturers go broke and our trade deficit blows out. Thats your modern Austrian malinvestment resolution right there.

Under gold-fractional-reserve the malinvestment would lead to projects being abandoned mid-way in such a way as to almost totally mystify the entire community. 

But under our floating exchange rate system what happens instead is our manufacturers make horrendous losses and our trade deficity blows out.

The last time you had this Misean breakdown where all these projects just shut down and were abandoned midstream, in traditional fractional-gold-standard fashion.....

.... The last time something like this happened was in Thailand in 1997.

So we have to be a bit careful now when we toss around this &quot;malinvestment&quot; term. We have to know the history of how this idea was formulated and how the phenomenon reveals itself in the modern era.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David. You ought to direct your questions about malinvestment to me where I know that my posts aren&#8217;t going to be blocked.</p>
<p>Under 100% backed commodity-money we can say that debt creates wealth when you use it to improve your cashflow. </p>
<p>The reason for this is that in a hard money world nobody is foolish enough to ever rely on capital gains. Its a high-yield world and cash-flow is King.</p>
<p>So all this investment in housing is just about all malinvestment, from this point of view. Because housing is a consumer durable and yet we treat it as an investment good. We only treat it as an investment good because of currency debasement.</p>
<p>Now this talk about malinvestment. This term tends to be thrown around as an absolutist term. But its all relative. In the sense that you can make better and better investments. And ones that make no sense.</p>
<p>In an inflationary period people make investments that might make sense from their personal point of view but that make no sense from the point of view of the free market being a sort of rational system.</p>
<p>We all flip houses. We make investments that don&#8217;t improve cashflow. But also in the commercial world people make investments that there aren&#8217;t the resources for. OR AT LEAST THIS IS HOW IT PANNED OUT UNDER FRACTIONAL-RESERVE-GOLD.</p>
<p>The quality of investments fall, viewed from a Gods-Eye point of view.  But there is also an issue about manufacturers making investments that the resources don&#8217;t support leading to cost overuns and long-term projects being abandoned mid-way through.</p>
<p>((((((This is what I&#8217;ve tried to impress on our young economics grads but so far without success. They seem to think that our trade deficits are all fair and good and that we ought lose our manufacturing. Whereas I&#8217;ve tried to explain that our manufacturing is being devastated by these esoteric monetary considerations&#8230;.)))))))</p>
<p>But this latter phenomenon doesn&#8217;t tend to happen these days in the way that Mises described it. Because our floating exchange rate system and the scope of international trade means that the projects do not now tend to get abandoned mid-stream like that.</p>
<p>Instead our manufacturers go broke and our trade deficit blows out. Thats your modern Austrian malinvestment resolution right there.</p>
<p>Under gold-fractional-reserve the malinvestment would lead to projects being abandoned mid-way in such a way as to almost totally mystify the entire community. </p>
<p>But under our floating exchange rate system what happens instead is our manufacturers make horrendous losses and our trade deficity blows out.</p>
<p>The last time you had this Misean breakdown where all these projects just shut down and were abandoned midstream, in traditional fractional-gold-standard fashion&#8230;..</p>
<p>&#8230;. The last time something like this happened was in Thailand in 1997.</p>
<p>So we have to be a bit careful now when we toss around this &#8220;malinvestment&#8221; term. We have to know the history of how this idea was formulated and how the phenomenon reveals itself in the modern era.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-53905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pedro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 00:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-53905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe Temujin is right about house land prices in Oz, but I think there will be some ugliness around holiday property markets and in the outer suburbs which 10 years ago were wastelands of negative equity.  In my inner city suburb the home prices are not especially high relative to household incomes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Temujin is right about house land prices in Oz, but I think there will be some ugliness around holiday property markets and in the outer suburbs which 10 years ago were wastelands of negative equity.  In my inner city suburb the home prices are not especially high relative to household incomes.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Clark</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-53904</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joseph Clark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-53904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shem,
One of the drivers has been the pull-back in the carry trade. A lot of people were long AUD because of the high interest rate. As their portfolios were hit from other sides they pulled back on their carry positions: selling AUD and NZD, buying back JPY and CHF, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shem,<br />
One of the drivers has been the pull-back in the carry trade. A lot of people were long AUD because of the high interest rate. As their portfolios were hit from other sides they pulled back on their carry positions: selling AUD and NZD, buying back JPY and CHF, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: TerjeP (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-53900</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TerjeP (say tay-a)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-53900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JC - if the falling gold price is a concern (ie deflation) then the central bank could leave the interest rates alone and just buy gold (thus monetising it).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JC &#8211; if the falling gold price is a concern (ie deflation) then the central bank could leave the interest rates alone and just buy gold (thus monetising it).</p>
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		<title>By: TerjeP (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-53899</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TerjeP (say tay-a)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-53899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shem - beware the simple mythology. The myth works like this.

Strong Economy = Rising Prices
Strong Economy = Strong Currency 
But Rising Prices = Weaker Currency

In other words the myth does not entirely add up. You can have a strong economy with a weak currency or a weak economy with a strong currency. 

Inflation and Deflation basically happen orthogonally to Expansion and Contraction. The former only feed into the latter because humans make commitments that get confounded by unexpected changes in the value of the unit of account.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shem &#8211; beware the simple mythology. The myth works like this.</p>
<p>Strong Economy = Rising Prices<br />
Strong Economy = Strong Currency<br />
But Rising Prices = Weaker Currency</p>
<p>In other words the myth does not entirely add up. You can have a strong economy with a weak currency or a weak economy with a strong currency. </p>
<p>Inflation and Deflation basically happen orthogonally to Expansion and Contraction. The former only feed into the latter because humans make commitments that get confounded by unexpected changes in the value of the unit of account.</p>
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		<title>By: Shem Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-53895</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shem Bennett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-53895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Random question that has been bugging me recently (and perhaps one that shows my economic illiteracy):

Australia&#039;s dollar was strong against the US dollar for quite a while over the last 12 months (I bought a lot cheap on ebay during that period!) But over the last couple of months, the exchange rate has gone crap and the almost 1:1 ratio has dropped back to around 1:0.8 

How does this happen? I thought that the Australian economy was still doing better than the US? I thought the exchange rate was essentially a relative measure of the strength of respective economies. Australia&#039;s economic strength relative to America doesn&#039;t seem to have changed, so why has the exchange rate turned so badly against us?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Random question that has been bugging me recently (and perhaps one that shows my economic illiteracy):</p>
<p>Australia&#8217;s dollar was strong against the US dollar for quite a while over the last 12 months (I bought a lot cheap on ebay during that period!) But over the last couple of months, the exchange rate has gone crap and the almost 1:1 ratio has dropped back to around 1:0.8 </p>
<p>How does this happen? I thought that the Australian economy was still doing better than the US? I thought the exchange rate was essentially a relative measure of the strength of respective economies. Australia&#8217;s economic strength relative to America doesn&#8217;t seem to have changed, so why has the exchange rate turned so badly against us?</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Shaw</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/10/02/financial-crisis-optimism/#comment-53892</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steven Shaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1535#comment-53892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;federal reserve to keep money stable, which requires “broad money” to grow at a low and stable level&quot;

I don&#039;t think the Fed managed to do that. Neither did the RBA. Have you seen &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Steve Keen&#039;s blog&lt;/a&gt;?

I don&#039;t much like Steve Keen&#039;s idea of a solution - inflation. Sounds like you have much the same idea. Wouldn&#039;t that persecute savers, retirees and renters?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;federal reserve to keep money stable, which requires “broad money” to grow at a low and stable level&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the Fed managed to do that. Neither did the RBA. Have you seen <a href="http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/" rel="nofollow">Steve Keen&#8217;s blog</a>?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t much like Steve Keen&#8217;s idea of a solution &#8211; inflation. Sounds like you have much the same idea. Wouldn&#8217;t that persecute savers, retirees and renters?</p>
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