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	<title>Comments on: Who saw the financial meltdown coming?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/</link>
	<description>Australian Libertarian Society Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Printing lots of cash &#171; Thoughts on Freedom</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-62345</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Printing lots of cash &#171; Thoughts on Freedom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-62345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Printing lots of&#160;cash In December last year I linked to a chart showing the amazing spike in the amount of US cash entering into the global economic system. It was stunning because of the unprecidented magnitude of the spike. The Americans have been printing cash like there is no tomorrow. I suspect that some people didn&#8217;t really grasp what the chart was saying because it was a little bit technical but also because the shadows on the background of the chart kind of obscured the spike at the end of the chart unless you were paying close attention. If you want to go back and have another look then click here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Printing lots of&nbsp;cash In December last year I linked to a chart showing the amazing spike in the amount of US cash entering into the global economic system. It was stunning because of the unprecidented magnitude of the spike. The Americans have been printing cash like there is no tomorrow. I suspect that some people didn&#8217;t really grasp what the chart was saying because it was a little bit technical but also because the shadows on the background of the chart kind of obscured the spike at the end of the chart unless you were paying close attention. If you want to go back and have another look then click here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 2dogs</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-57801</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[2dogs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-57801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the question of belief/non-belief of ABCT, the situation is more insidious.  The surplus liquidity creates a &quot;demand for deceit&quot;, which places the free market&#039;s discovery process into the counter-productive mode of looking for new ways to deceive investors.  The benefits of deceitful behaviour are significantly raised during this phase, and the higher &quot;price&quot; induces more &quot;supply&quot;.

The market, of course, also has a discovery process to eliminate all sources of sub-optimal performance (including deceit), but this latter process is typically slower than the former.
 
As a side note, if you look at recent history, the diversity of deceit methods in a single crash has been reducing.  Compare the wide variety of creative accounting methods used in the 1980&#039;s to the very debt specific method in the current crash.  I haven&#039;t been able to decide whether this is due to:

a) possible competition between methods prior to the crash (&quot;best lie wins&quot;), or

b) we are running out of new deceit methods (do we have &quot;peak lies&quot; as well as &quot;peak oil&quot;?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the question of belief/non-belief of ABCT, the situation is more insidious.  The surplus liquidity creates a &#8220;demand for deceit&#8221;, which places the free market&#8217;s discovery process into the counter-productive mode of looking for new ways to deceive investors.  The benefits of deceitful behaviour are significantly raised during this phase, and the higher &#8220;price&#8221; induces more &#8220;supply&#8221;.</p>
<p>The market, of course, also has a discovery process to eliminate all sources of sub-optimal performance (including deceit), but this latter process is typically slower than the former.</p>
<p>As a side note, if you look at recent history, the diversity of deceit methods in a single crash has been reducing.  Compare the wide variety of creative accounting methods used in the 1980&#8242;s to the very debt specific method in the current crash.  I haven&#8217;t been able to decide whether this is due to:</p>
<p>a) possible competition between methods prior to the crash (&#8220;best lie wins&#8221;), or</p>
<p>b) we are running out of new deceit methods (do we have &#8220;peak lies&#8221; as well as &#8220;peak oil&#8221;?)</p>
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		<title>By: TerjeP (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-57739</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TerjeP (say tay-a)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 04:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-57739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Presumably when people say mal-investment they also include under investment in some sectors. Jude Wanniski argued in the late 90&#039;s and early noughties that the excessively strong US dollar was causing under investment in oil exploration. And presumably the subsequent weak dollar helped cause some over investment in US real estate. 

Distortions can take a long time to flow through to an impact on the supply at the consumer end of the bargain which is why I think using a consumer basket as the main measure of inflation creates a deeply flawed monetary feedback mechanism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presumably when people say mal-investment they also include under investment in some sectors. Jude Wanniski argued in the late 90&#8242;s and early noughties that the excessively strong US dollar was causing under investment in oil exploration. And presumably the subsequent weak dollar helped cause some over investment in US real estate. </p>
<p>Distortions can take a long time to flow through to an impact on the supply at the consumer end of the bargain which is why I think using a consumer basket as the main measure of inflation creates a deeply flawed monetary feedback mechanism.</p>
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		<title>By: John Humphreys</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-57720</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Humphreys]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-57720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stephen -- I know that monetarists accept the short-run real impacts of monetary policy. That&#039;s why I wrote it. :)

To get to the ABCT you only need to add one more factor, and that is to recognise that the real impacts are different in different sectors of the economy. So we don&#039;t just have &quot;over-investment&quot;, but the price signals are temporarily changed and we have &quot;mal-investment&quot;.

I agree that this would be true of all monetary systems.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen &#8212; I know that monetarists accept the short-run real impacts of monetary policy. That&#8217;s why I wrote it. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>To get to the ABCT you only need to add one more factor, and that is to recognise that the real impacts are different in different sectors of the economy. So we don&#8217;t just have &#8220;over-investment&#8221;, but the price signals are temporarily changed and we have &#8220;mal-investment&#8221;.</p>
<p>I agree that this would be true of all monetary systems.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Kirchner</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-57715</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen Kirchner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-57715</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JohnH, contrary to popular belief, monetarists have always supported the idea that money is non-neutral in the short-run (and potentially even in the long-run, given a permanent shock to financial technology).  This is a basic implication of money lacking a market of its own, so that any excess demand/supply has to work its way through other markets.  This is a property of money in general, not just central bank money and would be just as true of a market-determined monetary system.  While relative price shifts are part of this process and you might even get something approximating a business cycle out of it, this is a very different model to ABCT, which is really a signficant departure from the broader Austrian tradition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnH, contrary to popular belief, monetarists have always supported the idea that money is non-neutral in the short-run (and potentially even in the long-run, given a permanent shock to financial technology).  This is a basic implication of money lacking a market of its own, so that any excess demand/supply has to work its way through other markets.  This is a property of money in general, not just central bank money and would be just as true of a market-determined monetary system.  While relative price shifts are part of this process and you might even get something approximating a business cycle out of it, this is a very different model to ABCT, which is really a signficant departure from the broader Austrian tradition.</p>
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		<title>By: John Humphreys</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-57684</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Humphreys]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-57684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stephen -- I think ABCT works irrespective of whether people believe it or not. All that you need is the assumption that people do not (or cannot) automatically and perfectly adjust to expected inflation... and recognition that monetary expansion impacts on different industries/people differently.

The first part is accepted by most monetary economists, including the monetarists (which is why monetary policy can be effective in the real economy short-term).

And the second part (which not included in monetarist or keynesian analysis) is self-evident. This is the part of the story where mal-investment (instead of simply over-investment) comes in... which requires capital to be later re-allocated (with the associated &quot;creative destruction&quot;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen &#8212; I think ABCT works irrespective of whether people believe it or not. All that you need is the assumption that people do not (or cannot) automatically and perfectly adjust to expected inflation&#8230; and recognition that monetary expansion impacts on different industries/people differently.</p>
<p>The first part is accepted by most monetary economists, including the monetarists (which is why monetary policy can be effective in the real economy short-term).</p>
<p>And the second part (which not included in monetarist or keynesian analysis) is self-evident. This is the part of the story where mal-investment (instead of simply over-investment) comes in&#8230; which requires capital to be later re-allocated (with the associated &#8220;creative destruction&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: 2dogs</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-57648</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[2dogs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-57648</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The main reason why so few saw this coming is that they relied on the ratings agencies such as Moody&#039;s doing their job.  People knew these bad loans were out there, but everyone assumed that if the securities they were buying was AAA, they weren&#039;t supported by such loans.

Hopefully, the free market will learn (and learning is its mainh strength) and alter its approach, possibly from a system based on ratings agencies to one based on insurance.  My fear is that the moral hazard of government responses to the crisis will mean it never will.  

It would have been better, if, instead of these billion dollar bailouts, central banks simply sold insurance to underwrite securities (at as fair a price as their economists can work out for each security).  These government suppliers would acquire private competitors over time, and governments could exit from the crisis with minimal damage later on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main reason why so few saw this coming is that they relied on the ratings agencies such as Moody&#8217;s doing their job.  People knew these bad loans were out there, but everyone assumed that if the securities they were buying was AAA, they weren&#8217;t supported by such loans.</p>
<p>Hopefully, the free market will learn (and learning is its mainh strength) and alter its approach, possibly from a system based on ratings agencies to one based on insurance.  My fear is that the moral hazard of government responses to the crisis will mean it never will.  </p>
<p>It would have been better, if, instead of these billion dollar bailouts, central banks simply sold insurance to underwrite securities (at as fair a price as their economists can work out for each security).  These government suppliers would acquire private competitors over time, and governments could exit from the crisis with minimal damage later on.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Kirchner</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-57636</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen Kirchner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-57636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ED, all entrepreneurs no doubt try and time the cycle, but these individual efforts should by and large cancel each other out. There should be no shortage of entrepreneurs willing to take the other side of this view.  

To get a general business cycle out of this process, these timing errors would need to be correlated, which is equivalent to saying that the credit cycle induces systematic error over and above normal entrpreneurial error.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ED, all entrepreneurs no doubt try and time the cycle, but these individual efforts should by and large cancel each other out. There should be no shortage of entrepreneurs willing to take the other side of this view.  </p>
<p>To get a general business cycle out of this process, these timing errors would need to be correlated, which is equivalent to saying that the credit cycle induces systematic error over and above normal entrpreneurial error.</p>
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		<title>By: E.D.</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-57626</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E.D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-57626</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stephen,

Here is another possible response in reference to a similar quote of Mises:

&quot;Nevertheless, for reasons supplied in the main text, this augural presentation Mises made in 1949 of the hypothesis of rational expectations is not entirely justified, considering that even when entrepreneurs have a perfect understanding of the theory of the cycle and wish to avoid being trapped by it, they will always continue to be tempted to participate in it by the excellent profits they can bring in if they are perceptive enough to withdraw in time from the corresponding investment projects.&quot;

Jesus Huerto De Soto: Money, Bank Credit &amp; Economic Cycles, 1998]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen,</p>
<p>Here is another possible response in reference to a similar quote of Mises:</p>
<p>&#8220;Nevertheless, for reasons supplied in the main text, this augural presentation Mises made in 1949 of the hypothesis of rational expectations is not entirely justified, considering that even when entrepreneurs have a perfect understanding of the theory of the cycle and wish to avoid being trapped by it, they will always continue to be tempted to participate in it by the excellent profits they can bring in if they are perceptive enough to withdraw in time from the corresponding investment projects.&#8221;</p>
<p>Jesus Huerto De Soto: Money, Bank Credit &amp; Economic Cycles, 1998</p>
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		<title>By: TerjeP (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2008/12/13/who-saw-the-financial-meltdown-coming/#comment-57619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TerjeP (say tay-a)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alsblog.wordpress.com/?p=1859#comment-57619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pommy - quite likely. However he does tell a good yarn. 

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/12/13/the-worlds-biggest-ponzi-scheme/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pommy &#8211; quite likely. However he does tell a good yarn. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/12/13/the-worlds-biggest-ponzi-scheme/" rel="nofollow">http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/12/13/the-worlds-biggest-ponzi-scheme/</a></p>
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