Comments on: “It’s Discrimination”

By: nicholas gray

nicholas gray — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 00:40:30 +0000

Whilst I agree that there were individual people whom we would call scientists, they were a lot rarer than we would like- and wasn’t Socrates given the choice of expulsion or death by poison, simply because his ideas were heretical? Sounds like the Greek Inquisition to me!
Whilst Plato’s house became the basis for our idea of a University, it did not do well in Greece, and it was only cocsistently applied in Christian Europe. Why was this? Well, I think that a lot of science and technology develops from problems with machines, and Europeans developed machines because they didn’t have a slave-reliant culture- unlike the Romans or Greeks, or Muslims. In fact, slavery seems to have stifled innovation in the ancient world. Heros of Alexandria was a thinker of Roman times who almost developed the steam engine, but he quit because there was no call for that sort of machine, because slaves could push things for you.
Science was only systematically taught in Western Europe after philosophers like Francis Bacon had laid the groundwork, and in response to real problems- and it didn’t develop in non-Christian cultures.
There must be a reason for that.

By: Daniel Farmilo

Daniel Farmilo — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:43:01 +0000

I also would have considered the above fairly uncontroversial.

Shows what I know.

By: Daniel Farmilo

Daniel Farmilo — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:25:28 +0000

>Dan — are you saying you think it should be illegal to be verbally abusive to somebody?

I would make no apologies for saying that I think certain forms of verbal abuse should be illegal, especially if the abuse could be considered threatening or harassment. It’s obviously better if the abused person can get away from the abuser, but they aren’t always able to.

You could make an academic argument that if a property owner made every person who entered their property aware that they would be subject to immense amounts of verbal abuse, then the person who entered the property has made that choice. Fine. I agree with that. We do have a few “default” things we expect in the absence of such warnings: I expect not to be killed where I don’t see a sign that says “trespassers will be shot”. I think that it’s reasonable to expect the law to protect someone from serious verbal abuse/threats/harassment in usual circumstances.

By: TerjeP (say tay-a)

TerjeP (say tay-a) — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:11:07 +0000

This isn’t true, the revival of ancient Greek works was the main driver leading to the renaissance and then the enlightenment.

I tend to agree with this interpretation of history. The important qualities of western civilisation in terms of political science and the physical sciences pre-dates Christianity and had to be liberated from the oppressive grip of Christianity rather than having been somehow forged by Christianity.

By: Tim R

Tim R — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:52:28 +0000

Science did not start in Christian countries.
Science can in no way be attributed to the primitive philosophy of Christianity.
Astrology was present in many ancient civilizations.
But the polytheistic ancient Greeks made the biggest scientific advances. The ancient Greek, Thales was the first historical record of an attempt at a scientific law. The Greeks were the first to derive mathematical theories of the natural world using the empirical method (eg/ Archimedes discovery of specific gravity). This all pre-dates Christianity.

The middle ages where people actually took the bible seriously and Christianity was practised in its most logically consistent form, saw a reversal in science. eg/ The art of building out of stone was lost to the world. Colds were treated by “blood letting”. Demons abounded.
There are many examples of famous scientists persecuted by the church.
Even in this day and age when the benefits of science are so obvious we find Christian opposition to science and technology. eg/ teaching creationism in schools, opposition to genetic engineering, cloning, stem cell research, RU486 etc, not to mention the way Christian leaders attempt to make people feel guilty for being “materialistic”.

I agree that Islam is currently a far worse religion than Christianity, even though you’re not allowed to say that in public.
And I agree that people are far too generous these days towards Islam by attempting to attribute the reaissance to Islam, or by trying to argue that Islam has free market roots. This isn’t true, the revival of ancient Greek works was the main driver leading to the renaissance and then the enlightenment.

By: John Humphreys

John Humphreys — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 09:45:15 +0000

Dan — are you saying you think it should be illegal to be verbally abusive to somebody?

By: AndreU

AndreU — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 05:35:07 +0000

Jill,IMO, there should be no facet of the state that assists you in your pursuit of punishing the discrminating behaviour of your ex-employer. This would only be possible if the state stayed out of the business of generating laws that punish or regulate discrimination in our society (obviously this is an unrealistic proposition and you may well use all the weapons at your disposal including the states power). Otherwise, you can do as you please without threat of violence or threat to property, such as a contract that explicitly protects against discrimination.

Sharing my philosophical perspective on discrimnation may help you to be less angry about this situation. See, when you lable yourself (and others) in the “overweight discriminated against” category you immediately take away from the many other qualities you possess. Sighting “Discrimination” is literally dehumanising to you. You are denying that you are a distinct individual, free agent. People should be looked after based on who they are not what groups they belong to (which is what the state does) . So consider it a lost opportunity not an issue of discrimination.

By: TerjeP

TerjeP — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 00:28:58 +0000

Jill has the right to ridicule this employer in the press. I think she should go for it. However I agree with others that there should be no law against an employer making rude remarks. The law should mediate contracts and prevent coersion however it shouldn’t attempt to deal with the finer details of relationships, for practical as well as philosophical reasons.

By: Daniel Farmilo

Daniel Farmilo — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:39:39 +0000

Hi Jill, I think most people here would be of the opinion that a business owner should be able to fire someone for any reason, seeing as they should have the right to do whatever they like with their own property.

If it crosses the line to become abuse or harassment (I’m not sure it has in this case, I tend to agree with John that it was mean what was said to you, but not necessarily abusive, further information could enlighten us further on this) opinions may differ.

If the employer didn’t like you for whatever reason, I think they should have just let you go without the comments which have obviously hurt you (that should remain a moral issue rather than a legal issue), but no one has a “right” to a job. You do, however, certainly have the right to leave and get another job if you don’t like how you have been treated.

All the best.

By: Jill

Jill — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:32:56 +0000

Some very well-made points. As for telling them that it was not in my contract; I did just that. Mind you, the strangest thing about this is the fact that most people that see me for the first time (even the local news reporter who ran a full segment on this issue), do not even consider me “fat”. Curvy and tall, and standing to lose maybe 40 pounds, yes, but “obese” – no. Judge for yourself by watching one of my video segments on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOjgUSeYaxI

There are three videos explaining what happened.

The point that I am trying to make has nothing to do with feeling sorry for me; I can handle my self. The point is that people should be able to go to work and not put up with literal threats and cruel comments, regardless the reason. Hey, I’m all for constructive criticism, but what I (and many others), have experienced, was not constructive.

As for the mental assessment comment as made by someone; it is that type of mentality that constitutes the source of ignorance. For one; I am mentally sound. As a healthcare provider, I, along with others, must undergo a physical and mental health evaluation in order to fulfill licensing requirements.

I have a healthy appetite for humor, but there is nothing funny or PROFESSIONAL about the behaviors that were exhibited. Staying in a situation like that is the likeness of wanting to remain a ‘victim’ – NO THANK YOU. I have counseled enough people through time, as well as have talked to major company executives who agree with my reaction and decision.

Opinions are fine; you’re entitled, but the workplace is not the venue to take out your personal problems. People who dish that garbage are the ones who need mental health assistance. They obviously get off by belittling others because they feel inferior and have to throw stones at others, to make themselves feel good, so, check the ‘tude at the door when you punch-in.