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	<title>Comments on: Guest Post: Stomping A Frog</title>
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	<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/</link>
	<description>Australian Libertarian Society Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Guest Post: The Emperor’s New Modem &#171; Thoughts on Freedom</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-74087</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guest Post: The Emperor’s New Modem &#171; Thoughts on Freedom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-74087</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Emperor’s New&#160;Modem Dan Nolan, one of the brilliant bloggers from Ultimate Science Team, and previous ALS guest blogger, has provided us with his libertarian perspective on online activism, triggered by the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Emperor’s New&nbsp;Modem Dan Nolan, one of the brilliant bloggers from Ultimate Science Team, and previous ALS guest blogger, has provided us with his libertarian perspective on online activism, triggered by the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim R</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-73256</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim R]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-73256</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A call to action!  

I like the interesting observation that the police are actually supporting a miscarriage of justice with the bikie law example.  
I can understand the police position considering they are trying to do the impossible - stop the black market in illicit drugs.  But senior police chiefs need to take a step back and look outside the square.  Perhaps the laws themselves or the legal system itself has created the problem they are now trying to fix. 

I think that by publically supporting unjust laws such as mandatory sentencing, privacy violations, tougher drug laws or collectivist bikie laws, ultimately police are actually harming themselves and their own profession.  Because the more unjust the law becomes the less people will realise how essential and beneficial it is to enforce certain laws (eg/ property rights) and the more disrespectful and distrustful they will be of the legal system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A call to action!  </p>
<p>I like the interesting observation that the police are actually supporting a miscarriage of justice with the bikie law example.<br />
I can understand the police position considering they are trying to do the impossible &#8211; stop the black market in illicit drugs.  But senior police chiefs need to take a step back and look outside the square.  Perhaps the laws themselves or the legal system itself has created the problem they are now trying to fix. </p>
<p>I think that by publically supporting unjust laws such as mandatory sentencing, privacy violations, tougher drug laws or collectivist bikie laws, ultimately police are actually harming themselves and their own profession.  Because the more unjust the law becomes the less people will realise how essential and beneficial it is to enforce certain laws (eg/ property rights) and the more disrespectful and distrustful they will be of the legal system.</p>
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		<title>By: Ostralion/'Nuke' Gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-73249</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ostralion/'Nuke' Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-73249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark- ONAnism is one of the most powerful forces around! Mock it at your peril!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark- ONAnism is one of the most powerful forces around! Mock it at your peril!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hill</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-73246</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Hill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-73246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d be interested to know how the ONA can be considered to be &quot;too powerful&quot; etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be interested to know how the ONA can be considered to be &#8220;too powerful&#8221; etc.</p>
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		<title>By: chromefist</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-73218</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chromefist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-73218</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And you didn&#039;t even get started the federal level - ASIO, AFP, ASIS, ONA, DSA, Defence Signals &amp; the BCP, for starters. And if you&#039;re interested in a spot of rendition, DIaC can help you out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you didn&#8217;t even get started the federal level &#8211; ASIO, AFP, ASIS, ONA, DSA, Defence Signals &amp; the BCP, for starters. And if you&#8217;re interested in a spot of rendition, DIaC can help you out.</p>
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		<title>By: TerjeP (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-73216</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TerjeP (say tay-a)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-73216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim - I have taken the liberty of fixing your broken links as per the advice above from Daniel.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim &#8211; I have taken the liberty of fixing your broken links as per the advice above from Daniel.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Farmilo</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-73201</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Farmilo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-73201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh yeah, great post, too :P]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, great post, too <img src='http://s2.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Farmilo</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-73200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Farmilo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-73200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim, when adding links, you need to include the http:// otherwise it is assumed by the great Gods of the Internet that your links exist in the same domain as the current site. 

The result is your links end up pointing to &quot;http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/ultimatescienceteam.com&quot; and &quot;http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/www.twitter.com/dannolan&quot; which obviously doesn&#039;t work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, when adding links, you need to include the http:// otherwise it is assumed by the great Gods of the Internet that your links exist in the same domain as the current site. </p>
<p>The result is your links end up pointing to &#8220;http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/ultimatescienceteam.com&#8221; and &#8220;http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/www.twitter.com/dannolan&#8221; which obviously doesn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidLeyonhjelm</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-73196</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DavidLeyonhjelm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-73196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a great post. I entirely agree with it too, which of course has nothing to do with that estimation :-)

The only thing the police fear is being held accountable personally. That option was mostly removed by the NSW government a few years ago. They can now behave like the uniformed thugs many of them are, with impunity. When the Police Commissioner publicly defends such thuggery, as he did after APEC, the old saying about fish rotting from the head takes on new meaning. 

I have known police who disagree with these creeping powers. They tend to be the more thoughtful and intelligent ones who realise they won&#039;t always be police and would prefer not to be on the receiving end. Some will also think again if you ask whether they&#039;d like their family to be treated in that manner. 

But far too many are moralising blockheads who, as the post says, believe they are literally the thin blue line between civilisation and anarchy. Because they have a lot of contact with a criminal or violent people, they tend to believe everyone is really like that.  

Given the circumstances that led to their broad powers, as the post describes, there is probably only one response likely to reverse the trend. That is, to demonstrate the adverse impact the powers are having. 

That means complaining, publicly and in writing, every time the police abuse their powers. Take a photograph or record their misdeeds whenever possible. Embarrass and expose them in the media at every opportunity. Never back away from lodging a complaint, to ICAC, the Ombudsman, PIC and politicians. Use the law against them whenever possible. Never give them a statement and never ever plead guilty to anything. 

Eventually, the same politicians who thought there were votes in giving the police these powers might think there are votes in taking them away.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great post. I entirely agree with it too, which of course has nothing to do with that estimation <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The only thing the police fear is being held accountable personally. That option was mostly removed by the NSW government a few years ago. They can now behave like the uniformed thugs many of them are, with impunity. When the Police Commissioner publicly defends such thuggery, as he did after APEC, the old saying about fish rotting from the head takes on new meaning. </p>
<p>I have known police who disagree with these creeping powers. They tend to be the more thoughtful and intelligent ones who realise they won&#8217;t always be police and would prefer not to be on the receiving end. Some will also think again if you ask whether they&#8217;d like their family to be treated in that manner. </p>
<p>But far too many are moralising blockheads who, as the post says, believe they are literally the thin blue line between civilisation and anarchy. Because they have a lot of contact with a criminal or violent people, they tend to believe everyone is really like that.  </p>
<p>Given the circumstances that led to their broad powers, as the post describes, there is probably only one response likely to reverse the trend. That is, to demonstrate the adverse impact the powers are having. </p>
<p>That means complaining, publicly and in writing, every time the police abuse their powers. Take a photograph or record their misdeeds whenever possible. Embarrass and expose them in the media at every opportunity. Never back away from lodging a complaint, to ICAC, the Ombudsman, PIC and politicians. Use the law against them whenever possible. Never give them a statement and never ever plead guilty to anything. </p>
<p>Eventually, the same politicians who thought there were votes in giving the police these powers might think there are votes in taking them away.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Fryar</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/08/26/guest-post-stomping-a-frog/#comment-73185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Fryar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3021#comment-73185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The post was by Ron Kitching and I have not verified the figures however apart from criminal convictions there are a number of other matters that deserve investigation especially in relation to dirty deals with lobbyists. At the moment any calls for serious investigation into these are being blocked, but it appears we are heading in the direction of another &quot;Moonlight State.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The post was by Ron Kitching and I have not verified the figures however apart from criminal convictions there are a number of other matters that deserve investigation especially in relation to dirty deals with lobbyists. At the moment any calls for serious investigation into these are being blocked, but it appears we are heading in the direction of another &#8220;Moonlight State.&#8221;</p>
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