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	<title>Comments on: Mea culpa</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/</link>
	<description>Australian Libertarian Society Blog</description>
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		<title>By: One nation under (Oh My) God! &#171; Repatriare</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-80210</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[One nation under (Oh My) God! &#171; Repatriare]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-80210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] (if not consensus on the outcome), we’ve not signed anything binding either. Great way to go Rudd, lets follow the lead of these two great leading nations, one built on genocide and apparently [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (if not consensus on the outcome), we’ve not signed anything binding either. Great way to go Rudd, lets follow the lead of these two great leading nations, one built on genocide and apparently [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fleeced</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-79481</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fleeced]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-79481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I agree that Rudd has been terrible, but the thought of allowing Abbott anywhere near the levers of government is distressing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Everything is relative... Compared to the stench of Rudd, Abbott is a breath of fresh air.

&lt;blockquote&gt;That Keating quote Fleeced posted makes me miss Keating.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You might like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.webcity.com.au/keating/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this site&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I agree that Rudd has been terrible, but the thought of allowing Abbott anywhere near the levers of government is distressing.</p></blockquote>
<p>Everything is relative&#8230; Compared to the stench of Rudd, Abbott is a breath of fresh air.</p>
<blockquote><p>That Keating quote Fleeced posted makes me miss Keating.</p></blockquote>
<p>You might like <a href="http://www.webcity.com.au/keating/" rel="nofollow">this site</a></p>
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		<title>By: Yobbo</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-79469</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yobbo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-79469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tony Abbott pretty much owned Oakes there. Your religion is only relevant if you&#039;re in the liberal party. Labor catholics get a free pass.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony Abbott pretty much owned Oakes there. Your religion is only relevant if you&#8217;re in the liberal party. Labor catholics get a free pass.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisV</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-79468</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ChrisV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-79468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really despair of what I&#039;m going to do at the next election. I agree that Rudd has been terrible, but the thought of allowing Abbott anywhere near the levers of government is distressing.

In the end I would probably hold my nose and vote Liberal, but there hasn&#039;t been an election in my lifetime where I was more horrified by the choices, at least as they stand at the moment.

That Keating quote Fleeced posted makes me miss Keating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really despair of what I&#8217;m going to do at the next election. I agree that Rudd has been terrible, but the thought of allowing Abbott anywhere near the levers of government is distressing.</p>
<p>In the end I would probably hold my nose and vote Liberal, but there hasn&#8217;t been an election in my lifetime where I was more horrified by the choices, at least as they stand at the moment.</p>
<p>That Keating quote Fleeced posted makes me miss Keating.</p>
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		<title>By: Shem Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-79454</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shem Bennett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 12:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-79454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, looking at the facts rather than the spin I don&#039;t think Abbott is any worse than Rudd. The difference is Abbott was prominent even back during the RU46 conscience vote so his responses were of note. Rudd was lesser known then so the fact that he views abortion as a &quot;national tragedy&quot; was less noticed.

Funny thing is despite my strong pro-choice views I don&#039;t think there&#039;s much he&#039;s said that I&#039;d disagree too much with. Like I&#039;m pro-choice, not pro-abortion. I think the fact that a lot of women has abortions is something of a tragedy- especially if those women do so without properly considering how it&#039;ll effect them emotionally. It isn&#039;t a decision that should be taken lightly and I&#039;d advise most women NOT to terminate. But it is still their choice.

And he&#039;s right to point out Rudd&#039;s strong religious views. The internet filter. The gay marriage debate. Even some of his quotes don&#039;t inspire a lot of confidence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, looking at the facts rather than the spin I don&#8217;t think Abbott is any worse than Rudd. The difference is Abbott was prominent even back during the RU46 conscience vote so his responses were of note. Rudd was lesser known then so the fact that he views abortion as a &#8220;national tragedy&#8221; was less noticed.</p>
<p>Funny thing is despite my strong pro-choice views I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s much he&#8217;s said that I&#8217;d disagree too much with. Like I&#8217;m pro-choice, not pro-abortion. I think the fact that a lot of women has abortions is something of a tragedy- especially if those women do so without properly considering how it&#8217;ll effect them emotionally. It isn&#8217;t a decision that should be taken lightly and I&#8217;d advise most women NOT to terminate. But it is still their choice.</p>
<p>And he&#8217;s right to point out Rudd&#8217;s strong religious views. The internet filter. The gay marriage debate. Even some of his quotes don&#8217;t inspire a lot of confidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Fleeced</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-79442</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fleeced]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 03:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-79442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Meanwhile, they&#039;ve finally settled on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-holy-war-on-climate-change/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the spin&lt;/a&gt; over the campaign against the ETS.

It seems amongst the many groups and blogs urging people to protest against the ETS, so too was &quot;Catch the Fire Ministries&quot; (the same mob who made those idiotic comments about the &quot;Black Saturday&quot; bushfires).

Naturally, this is evidence that the whole thing was orchestrated by hardline conservative Christians - and is further evidence that Tony is the mad monk.

It was expected they were going to brand Abbott in this way, much as they have done in the past, but putting the whole ETS thing under the same banner is a new low.

Speaking of the &quot;mad monk&quot; image, this was from a recent &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=4275&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;interview with Laurie Oakes&lt;/a&gt; - I thought Abbott did quite well:

&lt;blockquote&gt;LAURIE OAKES: I don’t want to turn this into a religious inquisition so to speak, but I&#039;d like to ask you one question: do you believe in evolution?

TONY ABBOTT: Yes. But I don’t want to turn it into a religious inquisition either, Laurie.

LAURIE OAKES: No, that’s my only question, my only religious question.

TONY ABBOTT: Yeah, but Laurie look, you&#039;re asking me religious questions – you’ve never asked Kevin Rudd that question, have you?

LAURIE OAKES: No, but it&#039;s an idea.

TONY ABBOTT: But why not?

LAURIE OAKES: Well I will.

TONY ABBOTT: Because Kevin Rudd’s religious views are not so different from mine. You wouldn&#039;t ask Kristina Keneally that question.

LAURIE OAKES: But those people haven’t been nicknamed by their critics things like Captain Catholic, so it is something people wonder about you. I think it’s important to clarify.

TONY ABBOTT: But the point I’m making, Laurie, is my religious views, they&#039;re personal, they&#039;re not there in the political market place, and they&#039;re very similar...

LAURIE OAKES: Except to the extent you&#039;ve put them there.

TONY ABBOTT: Well I don’t do doorstops in front of church, Laurie. I mean if there&#039;s one person who has put religion front and centre in the public square, to use his phrase, it’s Kevin Rudd, so please, next time Kevin’s here, grill him on evolution and all these other subjects. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile, they&#8217;ve finally settled on <a href="http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-holy-war-on-climate-change/" rel="nofollow">the spin</a> over the campaign against the ETS.</p>
<p>It seems amongst the many groups and blogs urging people to protest against the ETS, so too was &#8220;Catch the Fire Ministries&#8221; (the same mob who made those idiotic comments about the &#8220;Black Saturday&#8221; bushfires).</p>
<p>Naturally, this is evidence that the whole thing was orchestrated by hardline conservative Christians &#8211; and is further evidence that Tony is the mad monk.</p>
<p>It was expected they were going to brand Abbott in this way, much as they have done in the past, but putting the whole ETS thing under the same banner is a new low.</p>
<p>Speaking of the &#8220;mad monk&#8221; image, this was from a recent <a href="http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=4275" rel="nofollow">interview with Laurie Oakes</a> &#8211; I thought Abbott did quite well:</p>
<blockquote><p>LAURIE OAKES: I don’t want to turn this into a religious inquisition so to speak, but I&#8217;d like to ask you one question: do you believe in evolution?</p>
<p>TONY ABBOTT: Yes. But I don’t want to turn it into a religious inquisition either, Laurie.</p>
<p>LAURIE OAKES: No, that’s my only question, my only religious question.</p>
<p>TONY ABBOTT: Yeah, but Laurie look, you&#8217;re asking me religious questions – you’ve never asked Kevin Rudd that question, have you?</p>
<p>LAURIE OAKES: No, but it&#8217;s an idea.</p>
<p>TONY ABBOTT: But why not?</p>
<p>LAURIE OAKES: Well I will.</p>
<p>TONY ABBOTT: Because Kevin Rudd’s religious views are not so different from mine. You wouldn&#8217;t ask Kristina Keneally that question.</p>
<p>LAURIE OAKES: But those people haven’t been nicknamed by their critics things like Captain Catholic, so it is something people wonder about you. I think it’s important to clarify.</p>
<p>TONY ABBOTT: But the point I’m making, Laurie, is my religious views, they&#8217;re personal, they&#8217;re not there in the political market place, and they&#8217;re very similar&#8230;</p>
<p>LAURIE OAKES: Except to the extent you&#8217;ve put them there.</p>
<p>TONY ABBOTT: Well I don’t do doorstops in front of church, Laurie. I mean if there&#8217;s one person who has put religion front and centre in the public square, to use his phrase, it’s Kevin Rudd, so please, next time Kevin’s here, grill him on evolution and all these other subjects.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: John Humphreys</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-79440</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Humphreys]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 03:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-79440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding the next election, it is worth noting that after the redistribution, five Liberal seats are now nominally Labor. So even if the vote was identical to 2007, the ALP would pick up five seats. 

Another 11 coalition seats have a margin of 1.5% or less, and so are very vulnerable to a swing to Labor. On current polls, they would lose an extra 13 seats (on top of the five lost through redistribution). 

To win government, the Liberals need a uniform swing of about 2.5%.

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the next election, it is worth noting that after the redistribution, five Liberal seats are now nominally Labor. So even if the vote was identical to 2007, the ALP would pick up five seats. </p>
<p>Another 11 coalition seats have a margin of 1.5% or less, and so are very vulnerable to a swing to Labor. On current polls, they would lose an extra 13 seats (on top of the five lost through redistribution). </p>
<p>To win government, the Liberals need a uniform swing of about 2.5%.</p>
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		<title>By: 'Nuke' Gray</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-79438</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA['Nuke' Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 01:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-79438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If we are lucky, Humphreys might be the swing factor! Last time he thought the ALP would be alright, and they won! Now he wants them out, so they&#039;re going to be toast! Let&#039;s all cheer humphreys, the lib-loving bear!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we are lucky, Humphreys might be the swing factor! Last time he thought the ALP would be alright, and they won! Now he wants them out, so they&#8217;re going to be toast! Let&#8217;s all cheer humphreys, the lib-loving bear!</p>
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		<title>By: Fleeced</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-79435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fleeced]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 00:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-79435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Saying that something is winnable doesn&#039;t mean I think it likely :)

I can&#039;t recall what I posted on the subject at the time, but I was certainly surprised how quickly it was all over on election night.

The Libs wouldn&#039;t win an election tomorrow, but I think if they campaign effectively (a big ask right there) against ETS, as well as issues like boat people, and hammer Rudd for economic mismanagement, that they&#039;ll have a chance. That&#039;s a lot of qualifications - so I&#039;m not exactly betting the house on a Lib win :)

That said, I do believe the polls are exaggerated.  Firstly, they&#039;re already outdated by the time they come out - there&#039;s been a clear shift in public sentiment against the warm-earthers, and one that I don&#039;t think is yet finished.

Secondly, there is a type of Bradley effect at play here.  The climate change movement has become so religious in its intensity, with opponents decried as deniers, that support is likely lower than polls would indicate... so whilst ALP would still win an election tomorrow, I highly doubt they&#039;d pick up 20 seats.

Thirdly, the shift in attitudes mentioned earlier has occurred without a political party championing the cause.  Some leadership on this could certainly turn things around before the next election.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saying that something is winnable doesn&#8217;t mean I think it likely <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t recall what I posted on the subject at the time, but I was certainly surprised how quickly it was all over on election night.</p>
<p>The Libs wouldn&#8217;t win an election tomorrow, but I think if they campaign effectively (a big ask right there) against ETS, as well as issues like boat people, and hammer Rudd for economic mismanagement, that they&#8217;ll have a chance. That&#8217;s a lot of qualifications &#8211; so I&#8217;m not exactly betting the house on a Lib win <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>That said, I do believe the polls are exaggerated.  Firstly, they&#8217;re already outdated by the time they come out &#8211; there&#8217;s been a clear shift in public sentiment against the warm-earthers, and one that I don&#8217;t think is yet finished.</p>
<p>Secondly, there is a type of Bradley effect at play here.  The climate change movement has become so religious in its intensity, with opponents decried as deniers, that support is likely lower than polls would indicate&#8230; so whilst ALP would still win an election tomorrow, I highly doubt they&#8217;d pick up 20 seats.</p>
<p>Thirdly, the shift in attitudes mentioned earlier has occurred without a political party championing the cause.  Some leadership on this could certainly turn things around before the next election.</p>
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		<title>By: Shem Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/07/mea-culpa/#comment-79433</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shem Bennett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 00:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.libertarian.org.au/?p=3331#comment-79433</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Weren&#039;t you one of the people that thought Howard stood a chance last election, though, Fleeced? :P

Honestly, I can&#039;t remember if you were or not. But I know a few people around here didn&#039;t believe the polls that had constantly been predicting very similar results to what actually happened in 2007.

If an election was tomorrow Labor and the polls for the last year have been accurate (likely) they would win cleanly with an increased majority and as Kev says potentially with 20 more MPs.

I don&#039;t think Abbott has what it takes to take down Rudd. Hockey might. Abbott can be an effective opposition leader until 2013, though. I still miss Costello, though. He was alright.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Weren&#8217;t you one of the people that thought Howard stood a chance last election, though, Fleeced? <img src='http://s2.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Honestly, I can&#8217;t remember if you were or not. But I know a few people around here didn&#8217;t believe the polls that had constantly been predicting very similar results to what actually happened in 2007.</p>
<p>If an election was tomorrow Labor and the polls for the last year have been accurate (likely) they would win cleanly with an increased majority and as Kev says potentially with 20 more MPs.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Abbott has what it takes to take down Rudd. Hockey might. Abbott can be an effective opposition leader until 2013, though. I still miss Costello, though. He was alright.</p>
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